Glorney Cup Round 1

National developments, strategies and ideas.
LawrenceCooper
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:20 pm

Results that I have so far for today:

Glorney Cup:

Wales 2 England 3
Scotland 3 Ireland 2

England 4 Scotland 1
Ireland 3 Wales 2

Gilbert:

Scotland 2 Ireland 1
Wales 0 England 3

England 2 Scotland 1 (unofficial)
Ireland Wales (no result)

Robinson:

Scotland 5 Ireland 1
Wales 4.5 England 1.5

No results from round 2.

Stokes:

Scotland 3.5 Ireland 2.5
Wales 2 England 4

England 3 Scotland 3
Ireland 3 Wales 3

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:51 am

Remaining round 2 results:

Gilbert: Ireland 1 Wales 2

Robinson: England 4.5 Scotland 1.5 & Ireland 2 Wales 4

Matthew Turner
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:47 am

Just some quick observations about the Glorney

1. The playing venue was excellent.
2. I thought the food was absolutely outstanding and extremely good value - 3 courses of swanky nosh £13 for adults £6.50 for kids. The hotel also put on sandwiches and jacket potatoes, but quite why anyone bothered to have this in the evening goodness only knows.
3. There were no wallcharts up anywhere so it was difficult to find results.
4. I suspect that the teams were much closer in strength than in previous years. Wales seemed much stronger than they have been for a while, which is very good for the competition. In general, the English teams seemed a little weaker than normal and it would be interesting to know what the selection policy was. The exception to this might be the Glorney team itself, which is certainly very strong on paper and might end up breaking clear of the field. However, they could have easily suffered upsets in the first two rounds.
5. I think the rooms at the Puma hotels are getting quite expensive. I don't who is to blame for this, but I know that the Irish and Scotch teams were given 'triple rooms' which consisted of two double beds; You just cannot do this any more. As part of the Glorney deal with Puma there is supposed to be a £1,000? cashback. It would be interesting to know where this is going.

Mike Truran
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:07 am

Matthew

1. and 2. Glad to hear you liked the venue and the food!

3. Can't comment - the 4NCL didn't get involved in the detailed logistics.

4. N/A

5. There's an analysis on the Chess Scotland forum which suggests (if I understand the numbers right) that the accommodation costs were broadly comparable with previous years (and hopefully with better quality venue and food?). They are as you will know in line with the usual 4NCL rates. I understand (again from the Chess Scotland forum) that the hotel has tried to address the double bed problem (at least partially) by putting extra beds in the rooms. Not ideal, but I suppose the difficulty is that many of the rooms in hotels are set up on the basis of two parents sharing with a child. I'll be discussing with Puma whether anything can be done to address this longer term once the dust settles.

5 (again). The bedroom commission income will be split equally between the 4NCL and the ECF. I don't know what the ECF will do with its share, but the 4NCL's share will go into reducing entry fees, covering our steadily increasing costs etc (we're a non-profit making organisation, so it will stay within the 4NCL :D )

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:12 am

Can anyone at the venue advise about the live coverage? The Wales Scotland match has the names of the Scotland and England team showing on the live boards.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:17 am

"5 (again). The bedroom commission income will be split equally between the 4NCL and the ECF. I don't know what the ECF will do with its share, but the 4NCL's share will go into reducing entry fees, covering our steadily increasing costs etc (we're a non-profit making organisation, so it will stay within the 4NCL )"

I am not completely happy with this. It means Chess Scotland have a choice between organising their Glorney in Daventry (because the Puma properties in Scotland are not suitable) and receiving their share of the commission, or organising the event at an equally good venue in Scotland but being unable to make a profit on the event because this is against the rules of the competition.
As an aside, do the 4NCL publish accounts?
Last edited by Matthew Turner on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

Mike Truran
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:18 am

Matthew

Just a quick reprise re costs. Here is the analysis from the Chess Scotland forum.
Scotland 2009 -
£125 for 3 nights inclusive of all meals & flats equipped with tea/coff/milk & lots extras (drink & snacks)

Wales 2010 -
£120 for 4 nights B & B only - we had to get the lunches & evening meals sorted ourselves & charged £40 extra in total then £160. travel costs met by CS to ensure everyone travelled together. Wales provided squash & tea/cof but all other drinks & snacks we did ourselves inclusive.

Ireland 2011 -
250 euros for 4 nights inclusive of all meals - hosts only provided water for players as an extra. Travel expenses met by CS.
Very broadly, for this year the costs for a four night stay staying three to a room should be something like £101 pppn B&B + £26 for four dinners, which if my maths is correct is quite a lot cheaper than 2010 and 2011. I stand to be corrected though!
Last edited by Mike Truran on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Truran
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:21 am

As an aside, do the 4NCL publish accounts?
Yes we do. We're a company limited by guarantee, so our accounts are lodged at Companies House each year.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:31 am

Mike,
Your Maths are not correct. There aren't any triple room at Daventry, two double beds is not suitable for three children. Some people will require twin rooms or single rooms and this all puts up the costs. You've quoted the price for childrens' meals, but obviously adults' meals were twice the price (and still fantastically good value). I am pretty sure that the costs at Daventry were higher than the comparable costs in previous years.

ThomasThorpe
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by ThomasThorpe » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:46 am

Live boards between Wales and Scotland have been fixed

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:46 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:Can anyone at the venue advise about the live coverage? The Wales Scotland match has the names of the Scotland and England team showing on the live boards.
It is a Dave Clayton special again so you could drop him a PM or email him direct if you have his details?
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:49 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:Can anyone at the venue advise about the live coverage? The Wales Scotland match has the names of the Scotland and England team showing on the live boards.
The good news is that the names have now been corrected and it is indeed Wales-Scotland.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:50 am

I'm not sure I understand this argument.

Presumably, the 4NCL either offered its services to provide a venue, or was invited to tender to host the event? The organisers then had a choice: Take Mike up on his offer, or not. The organisers would have known the terms of the offer, including things like the cost and the sharing of the bedroom commission. The organisers chose to take Mike's offer. They were surely within their right to turn him down and find a different venue.

So if the cost of the weekend and bedroom commission are problems, it seems to me that it's not Mike who should be receiving the complaint.

Mike Truran
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:53 am

As I said, I stand to be corrected! I doubt though that it's quite as simple an equation as either of us are presenting. For example, there is no room hire charge, which I imagine federations would generally be paying out of central funds rather than recouping from the players?

Anyway, what do I know? If the consensus is that it wasn't good value for money, doubtless the ECF won't be back in four years time.

Mike Truran
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Re: Glorney Cup Round 1

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:58 am

The organisers then had a choice: Take Mike up on his offer, or not.
Indeed. I did quite a lot of negotiation with Puma to try and find a Scottish venue (at the request of the organisers), but in the end I wasn't able to secure sufficiently favourable terms and they decided to decline them. That's absolutely fair enough. To be fair, I wouldn't have accepted them either!

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