Telegraph report about Austria

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Angus McDonald
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Angus McDonald » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:14 pm

It appears to me that few people care about the truth of matters!
In which case they will eventually get the organisation they deserve.

Abuse of power must bring the sponsors in in droves?

Alistair Campbell
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Alistair Campbell » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:39 pm

I make no comment on the alleged events in Austria other than to say is a serious issue and I am glad it is being treated as such.

However, that was an absolute car-crash of a thread on the CS Noticeboard, demonstrating the sort of lunacy that seems to infect otherwise rational people, particularly when “juniors” are concerned. Actions or comments that in isolation may seem harmless are often wilfully misinterpreted as being insulting or defamatory. In the circumstances, I think it was justifiable for the moderators to use their powers to delete. Other fora would have dished out yellow and red cards aplenty.

Of course, chess is not the only pastime where a handful of parents seem to need lessons in civilised or adult behaviour, but I believe there is some sort of “history” within Scottish Junior chess circles. I don’t know the details (nor do I particularly want to) but there appear to be some unresolved issues that periodically erupt into such a flame-fest. When that happens, I fear I am not alone in feeling a sense of bewilderment upon reading such outpourings, before, as my eyes start to bleed, seeking recourse in the calm and logical waters of the debate on ECF membership…

I hope those particular disputes don’t spill over here (and certainly not into this thread). People would be well advised to count to 10, put their glass down and walk away.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Peter D Williams » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:50 pm

The police will fully investigate this matter if a formal complaint is made to them by the family over the allegations and according to some reports a statement will be taken today by the police from this family.The police the authority's encourage all people to come forward if they witness racist actions/words and the CPS have a policy quite rightly of where possible taking people to court over racist behavior.

As i said i do remember at the events we went to with Peter for England the food being really poor cold food very little choice and if you do not have the money to make other arrangements your stuck in the hotel just really left to get on with it! I made arrangements to eat else where but you should not be in that position. I knew if you complained you be told there nothing you can do and everyone else appears happy with the food.Do not forget you paid out a lot of money to play to!
Last edited by Carl Hibbard on Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: A quote was removed as a post was premature
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:54 pm

Hi Alastair

".....that was an absolute car-crash of a thread on the CS Noticeboard,."

I missed that one, I rarely go there these days, it's often pretty lucid
though when it does blow up it often out shines this forum.
The Scots lads are often more articulate and controlled in their anger.
Here they lose the rag completely, get all the quotes mixed up and often
look at a posters grade to see if he/she has the right to an opinion.

I've seen loads of the threads like it in the past so I've no need to imagine what was going on.
I would not have got involved in that thread except to thank god
my kids never took to chess. (they saw what it did to their Dad.) :wink:

There is a history of bad feeling in Scottish junior chess, when it
peaked a few years back the kids despite the squabbling ignored them
and produced some incredible results.
I joked the parents are too busy in-fighting to coach them so
the kids were bound to get better....and they did!

Let the adults squabble. Next year the kids will win the Glorney and Faber Cups.

Someone mentioned CJ.
I did too in a previously locked thread. (this thread is going for the hat trick.)

I think CJ who is the President of ECF and has one foot in the media door
is the perfect lad to separate chess from any crime that has been committed
off the board and we all have to stand with him on this matter.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Peter D Williams » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:02 pm

Angus McDonald wrote:It appears to me that few people care about the truth of matters!
In which case they will eventually get the organisation they deserve.

Abuse of power must bring the sponsors in in droves?
I agree Angus.
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Angus McDonald
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Angus McDonald » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:10 pm

Thanks Peter.

You'd think some of the people posting here never had parents :D
I'm getting over sensitive but you can almost feel them spitting the word out when they say it :D
Will make a serious point about parents and children later.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:23 pm

Hi Angus

"Abuse of power must bring the sponsors in in droves?"

There has to be some form moding else the whole thing is pointless.
Half the fun is seeing how far you can go.
Without moding it would just get boring.

Having said that I think Mods should mod and nothing else.
(I've had this debate in the CS forum as well.)

No chipping in with opinions on any non-game matters.
(don't want to stop Jack commenting on games).
But anything else they should right stay out of it.
Them jumping in adds unfair weight to any argument and those
being argued against feel it's unfair, claim foul and leave.

Also mods must have short memories and no taking any previous
convictions or arguments into consideration and no public floggings.
There is enough dirty washing get done without a mod v user row
taking over a thread.
Pull the post and explain why to the user in a friendly PM. Simple.

Mods should be there but not heard.
(unless they spot a cute tactic in a posted game.)

Carl you can speak - it's your forum.

The street is full at the moment of toys that have thrown out of prams
and people leaving forums.
Who was that lad who called us all idiots, thanked us for the link to SG and left?
I want him back. We can save him.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:07 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:The police will ... and the CPS have a policy ....

Elsewhere, somebody was kind enough to leave a comment including the following link which is quite helpful regarding the question of jurisdiction.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/jurisdiction/#b02


Not a definitive answer, of course ("see Archbold") but helpful, nonetheless.

John Swain
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by John Swain » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:11 pm

The Telegraph is quoting the ECF's findings about Mureck:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/ches ... ation.html
Last edited by John Swain on Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Carol Williams
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Carol Williams » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:21 pm

John Swain wrote:The Telegraph is quoting the ECF's findings about Mureck:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/ches ... ation.html
Is it me or is the link not working :?:

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:23 pm

Try this:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/ches ... ation.html


"Unfounded" the ECF says. I'm sure that will be the end of it then. :?

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Gareth Harley-Yeo
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Gareth Harley-Yeo » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:02 pm

I wonder if we'll ever get to hear the other side of the story. From everything I've read so far I find it very difficult to side with Mr Rahman. His wife seems to have expected the others to conform to her beliefs under threat of being branded racists if they didn't (not consuming alcohol for example). There may well have been wrongdoing on both sides - It may have been better for the other parties to have not reacted and left them to it as, if the reaction is anywhere near what has been reported then it was clearly despicable and warrants a severe response from the ECF.

The halal food issue I can understand - if the ECF failed to meet their obligations of provision for any special dietary requirements then this needs to be looked at for future events.

Whether this particular story is an accurate account of racism from parents or a total fabrication as suggested by some, it is clear the ECF need to put a robust complaints system in place on the off-chance such a subject rears it's ugly head in the future.

Richard James
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Richard James » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:19 pm

Gareth Harley-Yeo wrote: Whether this particular story is an accurate account of racism from parents or a total fabrication as suggested by some, it is clear the ECF need to put a robust complaints system in place on the off-chance such a subject rears it's ugly head in the future.
You can download a consultation paper on Codes of Conduct (including the instigation of a formal complaints procedure) here. You have, at the time of posting, about 40 minutes left to comment on this.

You'll find the Draft Complaints Procedure on page 8. This would suggest that, had this procedure been in operation, as the complaint mentioned the Director of Junior Chess, it would have gone to the Chief Executive.

Did this actually happen, or was the investigation actually carried out by the Director of Junior Chess, or by someone appointed by him?

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Gareth Harley-Yeo
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Gareth Harley-Yeo » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:38 pm

Richard James wrote:
Did this actually happen, or was the investigation actually carried out by the Director of Junior Chess, or by someone appointed by him?
Thank you Richard. That is an interesting question :!:

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Telegraph report about Austria

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:50 pm

The one good thing about this story having hit the national press is that the story will be subject to scrutiny from both sides of the argument. I'm not sure whether I'm reading too much into the fact that two of the three known reports come from the right of the mainstream press.

Just trying to keep the lid on here - the ECF have issued a statement and say they have evidence that backs up their conclusions. If the police become involved (as seems possible) they will investigate and form their own conclusions. Obviously there will be the wider issue of what learnings need to be taken from this and how we can stop a similar incident from happening; but we need a measured response, not a panicked one.

I feel desperately sorry for the children of the `accused` as there seems to be no suggestion they were in any way involved in what should have been an exciting opportunity for them has been marred by this incident.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

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