World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

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Jim Wadsworth
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World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Jim Wadsworth » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:54 am

Details of the event, which runs from 7th to 19th November, are here: http://www.wycc2012.com/

Profiles of the England team are in process of being created and are being posted here: http://englishchess.org.uk/Juniors/wycc ... -the-team/.

With 34 players, 9 coaches and more than 30 other supporters (parents, brothers, sisters) travelling it is a very big group - certainly the largest team England has sent to the Worlds in my memory - and it is one with big ambitions too.

Two months to go, very much looking forward to it!

Richard Bates
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Richard Bates » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:31 pm

Just as a matter of interest, was there some sort of trigger point/reason at which enormous numbers of "supporters" started to go on these trips, or has it just been a gradual evolutionary process? 30 plus for a squad of 34? From memory back in the 90s the usual number of additional members of the squad was one (!) parent assisting the coach(es). It can't even be an affordability issue, because from the sounds of it the whole thing is incredibly expensive. I doubt the organisers are complaining!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:53 pm

Richard Bates wrote:Just as a matter of interest, was there some sort of trigger point/reason at which enormous numbers of "supporters" started to go on these trips, or has it just been a gradual evolutionary process?
Child protection conventions and rules must come into it somewhere. Some of the competitors are really young though.

Jim Wadsworth
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Jim Wadsworth » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:57 am

Richard Bates wrote:Just as a matter of interest, was there some sort of trigger point/reason at which enormous numbers of "supporters" started to go on these trips
I can't comment on prior to then, but certainly in the period my son has been involved in such events (from 2007 onwards) it has been the norm for both European and World Youth events for the majority of players to have a parent along with them. Some older players are unaccompanied. As Roger says in his posting there are a lot of younger children involved; and these are long events with 9 or 11 rounds plus travel days.

Earlier this year for the first time we (i.e. ECF) sent an England team to the World Schools Individual event (held in Iasi Romania, see http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4240), and this followed a similar model, i.e. parents / other supporters in attendance.

In contrast no "supporters" joined the team that has just returned from the U16 Olympiad; this is also consistent with recent precedent and makes sense given relatively older children competing.

And parents do not go along on the various 'Squad' trips organised by the estimable Peter Purland, Victor Cross and team, but then (if I understand correctly) these have a typically shorter duration.

Peter Turner
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Peter Turner » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:43 am

Quote:- Earlier this year for the first time we (i.e. ECF) sent an England team to the World Schools Individual event (held in Iasi Romania, see http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4240), and this followed a similar model, i.e. parents / other supporters in attendance.

Hi Jim

As Junior Director in 2005 I organised the England team to compete in the 1st World Schools Championships held in Greece. We also sent teams in 2006 & 2007. Since these events were new they were not included on the list of events for which the JD had a budget to organise. I was able to support the World Schools (WS) with income from the Certificate of Excellence and grants from the BCF YCT. In 2008 the WS was held in Singapore and I was not able to organise a team.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Peter D Williams » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:19 am

Richard Bates wrote:Just as a matter of interest, was there some sort of trigger point/reason at which enormous numbers of "supporters" started to go on these trips, or has it just been a gradual evolutionary process? 30 plus for a squad of 34? From memory back in the 90s the usual number of additional members of the squad was one (!) parent assisting the coach(es). It can't even be an affordability issue, because from the sounds of it the whole thing is incredibly expensive. I doubt the organisers are complaining!
What do you mean by enormous numbers of supporters? any parent/child who goes as far as i am aware have to pay a great deal on money to go to these events.You are looking at over £1300 if child parent go.
It is the new policy of JD to send more children to these events and in my view it is a good idea as it gives these players experience of international junior chess.the previous JD Peter Purland was against sending more than one child to these events and refused to discuss the issue with a lot of parents.so the policy could not change until he had gone!
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Richard Bates
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:54 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:Just as a matter of interest, was there some sort of trigger point/reason at which enormous numbers of "supporters" started to go on these trips, or has it just been a gradual evolutionary process? 30 plus for a squad of 34? From memory back in the 90s the usual number of additional members of the squad was one (!) parent assisting the coach(es). It can't even be an affordability issue, because from the sounds of it the whole thing is incredibly expensive. I doubt the organisers are complaining!
What do you mean by enormous numbers of supporters? any parent/child who goes as far as i am aware have to pay a great deal on money to go to these events.You are looking at over £1300 if child parent go.
Quite - that's partly why i find it even more surprising! Maybe some parents actually find it cost effective because they can use the events to double as (family) holidays? Whereas in the past the small number of parents (usually one) who went were always there in a semi-official capacity, and presumably often funded. Certainly taking (non-playing) brothers and sisters must be a very modern phenomenom?

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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by John Moore » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:06 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Peter D Williams wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:Just as a matter of interest, was there some sort of trigger point/reason at which enormous numbers of "supporters" started to go on these trips, or has it just been a gradual evolutionary process? 30 plus for a squad of 34? From memory back in the 90s the usual number of additional members of the squad was one (!) parent assisting the coach(es). It can't even be an affordability issue, because from the sounds of it the whole thing is incredibly expensive. I doubt the organisers are complaining!
What do you mean by enormous numbers of supporters? any parent/child who goes as far as i am aware have to pay a great deal on money to go to these events.You are looking at over £1300 if child parent go.
Quite - that's partly why i find it even more surprising! Maybe some parents actually find it cost effective because they can use the events to double as (family) holidays? Whereas in the past the small number of parents (usually one) who went were always there in a semi-official capacity, and presumably often funded. Certainly taking (non-playing) brothers and sisters must be a very modern phenomenom?

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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by John Moore » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:07 pm

Sorry - forgot to add on agree with Richard.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Peter D Williams » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:05 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Quite - that's partly why i find it even more surprising! Maybe some parents actually find it cost effective because they can use the events to double as (family) holidays? Whereas in the past the small number of parents (usually one) who went were always there in a semi-official capacity, and presumably often funded. Certainly taking (non-playing) brothers and sisters must be a very modern phenomenom?
I know of no family that uses these trips to double as a family holiday or taking non playing brothers or sister can you do this? as i thought all chess places where booked via the ECF? I doubt anyone going to the worlds will be treating it as a family holiday.You still have parents who go in a semi-official capacity no matter how many go.
My only concern is that only those that can afford these trips can go others who may be has good can not go but in this climate very little can be done about that as i can not see ECF members wanting to put extra money into sending juniors aboard to play chess?
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Richard Bates
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:11 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:
I know of no family that uses these trips to double as a family holiday or taking non playing brothers or sister can you do this?
Presumably.
With 34 players, 9 coaches and more than 30 other supporters (parents, brothers, sisters) travelling it is a very big group
Not expressing an opinion on whether it's right or wrong (not that i might not have one), just wondering on the reasons why things are so different now?

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Peter D Williams
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Peter D Williams » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:14 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Peter D Williams wrote:
I know of no family that uses these trips to double as a family holiday or taking non playing brothers or sister can you do this?
Presumably.
With 34 players, 9 coaches and more than 30 other supporters (parents, brothers, sisters) travelling it is a very big group
Not expressing an opinion on whether it's right or wrong (not that i might not have one), just wondering on the reasons why things are so different now?
Well that does surprise me to be taking non playing brothers,sisters. What is the point of that?
Taking a few extra parents would be a good idea to give support to these children but i see no need to take sisters and brothers.

Taking more juniors to play in the event is due to the change in policy by the new JD which in my view is a good idea to give juniors a taste of international junior chess.Peter Purland the last JD would only send one player for each age group and refused to disuses this issue along with other issues with parents which then caused him to lose the support of a large number of parents which in turn made him not stand as JD!
The new JD has listened to parents and where possible is trying to put in place a policy that is shaped by parents over junior chess.
It has come to late for us but at least its a start in the right direction.
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

Jim Wadsworth
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Jim Wadsworth » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:23 pm

Peter D Williams wrote:Well that does surprise me to be taking non playing brothers,sisters. What is the point of that?
In most cases, because the parents in question (having decided to travel with their playing offspring to the relevant events) don't have an alternate childcare solution available for their, typically pre-primary age, other child(ren)...

Jim Wadsworth
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Jim Wadsworth » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:31 pm

Peter Turner wrote:Quote:- Earlier this year for the first time we (i.e. ECF) sent an England team to the World Schools Individual event (held in Iasi Romania, see http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4240), and this followed a similar model, i.e. parents / other supporters in attendance.

Hi Jim

As Junior Director in 2005 I organised the England team to compete in the 1st World Schools Championships held in Greece. We also sent teams in 2006 & 2007. Since these events were new they were not included on the list of events for which the JD had a budget to organise. I was able to support the World Schools (WS) with income from the Certificate of Excellence and grants from the BCF YCT. In 2008 the WS was held in Singapore and I was not able to organise a team.
thanks Peter. I stand corrected.

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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Peter Roberson » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:34 pm

Richard Bates wrote:Just as a matter of interest, was there some sort of trigger point/reason at which enormous numbers of "supporters" started to go on these trips, or has it just been a gradual evolutionary process?

When I first went on one of these trips (2001?) I went unaccompanied as an U12. This wasn't particularly unusual. When I last went on one of these trips (2007?) I think only the U18s were unaccompanied. If there was one trigger point, I was unaware of it - I think the proportion of unaccompanied children just dropped each year.

The age group of 1-3 years older than me produced a couple of very strong GMs who emerged as the best from quite a lot of players who gained titles between 16-19 years old. It also gave rise to some working relationships between these players that continue to this day. So I'd say the old system worked well! They also benefited from being allowed more than one per age group per tournament.

This is probably a state of affairs that we can never return to - I'd guess it's partly due to a change in society in general. But I agree it is a bit of a shame.

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