World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

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Michele Clack
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Michele Clack » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

A terrific result. Well done to everyone who took part and Jim you have every right to be proud! :D

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:56 pm

Superb results by a super team.

You can really see a strong future for English Junior Chess from the very strong U8 performance (by all three entrants) all the way through each age group to our titled player at the top in the U18s. We have strength and depth which will only become stronger with each passing year with the numbers going. I hope that we continue to have such large numbers going (if not more) and well done to this years' team!

Well done to Matthew on his medal - an excellent achievement in a very strong field.

Jim Wadsworth
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Jim Wadsworth » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:35 pm

Matthew 5th in the U12s (half a point behind all the medalists) and Aditya 8th in the U8s.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:39 pm

Well done to them both. Did anyone else excel (defined as, oh I don't know, gaining more than 25 Elo points or finishing 40 or more places higher than their original seeding had suggested)?

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David Shepherd
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by David Shepherd » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:55 pm

Full results here http://chess-results.com/tnr84661.aspx? ... ilen=99999

I noticed Oskar Hackner 1985 had a fantastic start and after the first 6 rounds below was on a high TPR - in the end he gained 37 rating points

1 FM Studer Noel 2282 SUI Switzerland s 1
2 Samdanov Samdan 2227 RUS Russia w ½
3 Svane Rasmus 2399 GER Germany s ½
4 Kvetny Mark 2210 GER Germany w ½
5 Marjanovic Dejan 2233 BIH Bosnia And Hercegovina s 1
6 Petrov Nikita 2309 RUS Russia w ½

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:19 pm

Indeed, thanks for pointing that out. He was our biggest gainer by far.

But following that link is a bit worrying. Without wishing to rain on the parade, as it were, it seems to me that only six of our players had a performance level which exceeded their rating, though it is fair to say that eight of our players should really be regarded as having exceeded expectations, because most of Aditya's victims were unrated, and Zheming himself was unrated and so had nothing against which to measure his performance - but he clearly did well.

Of course, rating performances can be misleading in junior events. One can play some vastly under-rated opposition against whom one gets virtually no credit for beating. Even Matthew Wadsworth appears to have lost rating points, for example. For this reason, as I have suggested before, just holding one's rating is quite a good result, especially in the lower age groups. Several of our players only fractionally fell below their expected score, which might be considered "par" scores.

Still, some players must gain exceed their expected rating performances from these events (!) and this event actually seems to be like most of the previous ones where, by and large, our players didn't.

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David Shepherd
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by David Shepherd » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:39 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote: Even Matthew Wadsworth appears to have lost rating points, for example.
This is where I start to lose the plot - if you look at the link you will see his rating performance is below his grade but if you click on his name on the last game you will see he has actually gained rating points.

I think the rating performance shown is a bit misleading and to see the performance you need to see the points gained or lost.

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote: For this reason, as I have suggested before, just holding one's rating is quite a good result, especially in the lower age groups.
I agree with this. A big well done to Oskar for far surpassing this - making his performance truly outstanding.
Jonathan Rogers wrote:....and this event actually seems to be like most of the previous ones where, by and large, our players didn't.
This may be true, though there is something very important which should be noted. We have a bit more data this year because quite a few of our players have attended both the World's and the Europeans for the first time ever. Taking one of the largest groups, the U14s, every single player who attended both events this year has improved their performance. In that respect, it is not so much like our previous tournaments. You can measure the improvement. (Though the actual winner of the U14 European Title went on to almost win the U18 World Title also shows that the Europeans U14s were also very strong).

It is similar with the U8s also. Two of the three English players improved significantly and the third put in another strong performance.

It is this progress over the years which should be monitored closely as I believe this will be the ultimate guage of the changes/improvements year on year and tournament on tournament.

Also, I think that we should encourage any junior who is good enough, to attend both Europeans and Worlds if they can. That is a really good idea. It should be interesting to see the impact on the other juniors up and down the country with time. It would be nice to have lots of juniors in the top 20 rather than just one or two.

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:03 pm

Jim Wadsworth wrote:Matthew 5th in the U12s (half a point behind all the medalists) and Aditya 8th in the U8s.
Did Matthew not get a medal? I thought the top 8 got prizes/medals? Is it only top 3 for medals?
What are the prizes for the rest? (ie 4th to 8th)

Sorry for confusion!

Matthew Turner
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Matthew Turner » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:00 am

At any event like this there will always be players who do well and players who do badly. However, my impression was that overall the English squad did well. This is not based on any particular metric, but just watching relatively closely as the results came in. One advantage of sending such a big group is that it is possible to draw more valid conclusions, or at least develop hypotheses which might be useful for future events. Here are some things to think about

1. The English players have in recent years tended to 'tail off' at the end of the tournament. That didn't happen here.

2. The boys seemed to me to outperform the girls, do others agree and is there any reason for this?

3. Did those who had been to similar events perform better than those who were going to their first big championships? Krishna says Yes, but I'm not so sure.

4. Matthew Wadsworth did very well - is there anything about the way he approached the tournament that others could learn from?

Jim Wadsworth
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Jim Wadsworth » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:45 am

couple of pics from the prize-giving last night.

To answer Krishna's question, the exciting prizes for 4th to 8th inclusive was software. In Matthew's case, a copy of Fritz. Rather underwhelming really. But nonetheless Matthew enjoyed bounding onto the stage, milking the cheers from the English contingent and saying hi to Kasparov!
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Sean Hewitt
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Sean Hewitt » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:07 am

Congratualtions to all involved. I'm sure all the kids will benefit from the experience.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by MartinCarpenter » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:19 pm

Indeed :)

Oskar performance is fairly easy to explain - he's just much better than that FIDE grade. He's been improving astonshingly fast over the last couple of years (about 25-30 ECF points a year for two years running) so his FIDE rating will naturally still be lagging somewhat behind!

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:19 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:At any event like this there will always be players who do well and players who do badly. However, my impression was that overall the English squad did well. This is not based on any particular metric, but just watching relatively closely as the results came in. One advantage of sending such a big group is that it is possible to draw more valid conclusions, or at least develop hypotheses which might be useful for future events.
I agree
Matthew Turner wrote:1. The English players have in recent years tended to 'tail off' at the end of the tournament. That didn't happen here.
This is a question for the coaches/parents there. Was there more exercise being done? Were the kids better prepped as a lot of them had been to the Europeans/Olympiads and so understood what was about to come.
Matthew Turner wrote:2. The boys seemed to me to outperform the girls, do others agree and is there any reason for this?
Yes. We do not have enough girl chess players. Not enough is being done at the top to encourage participation from the girls in this country. Sabrina and Jovanka are doing what they can, but they need more support from the establishment.
Matthew Turner wrote:3. Did those who had been to similar events perform better than those who were going to their first big championships? Krishna says Yes, but I'm not so sure?
Just for clarity, that is not quite what I have said. I have actually said that you can see the improvement in the most of the children who have been to both the Europeans and the Worlds.

I did not say that "those who had been to similar events perform better than those in their first big championships" because actually I know that Rohan who was in his first big championship at the Europeans, got the highest performance of all the English U14s.

My point was simply that kids do improve from having the chance to go to these type of major tournaments. It boosts their confidence and playing chess for 9 or 11 solid days improves their awareness at the board significantly.
Matthew Turner wrote:4. Matthew Wadsworth did very well - is there anything about the way he approached the tournament that others could learn from?
Yes. I am sure Matthew and his parents could tell you lots. Matthew has been to these competitions almost every year since he was an U7. It is 'this approach' which has eventually paid off. If you give a talented junior the opportunity, eventually his/her persistence will pay off.

Now that we are letting more juniors go, we should see more 'Matthews', but these children will only appear as the younger age groups become older and it will take about 3-4 years before numbers start improving. This kind of national improvement takes years to filter through.
Last edited by Krishna Shiatis on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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David Shepherd
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Re: World Youth 2012 - Maribor, Slovenia

Post by David Shepherd » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:27 pm

Another player who deserves a special mention is Yang-Fan, he was the third highest scorer in the team and has over many years been a very consistent player and an ideal role model for the younger members of the team. His attitude and behaiour set a first class example to the whole team and he has once again shown that he fully deserves his status as an IM, hopefully he will obtain the GM title soon.

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