Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:54 am

Michael Flatt wrote: Who are on the committee of UK Chess Academy?
As far as I understand it, it's a commercial training business, so I doubt it has a committee in the sense you imply.

It's got involved in a row with the ECF, or at least I think this is what these are about.

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... p?f=7&t=95
http://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS ... nex_15.pdf

Richard James
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Richard James » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:00 am

The UK Chess Academy, to the best of my knowledge, is run by Mike Basman and Sainbayar Tserendorj.

Mick Norris
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:08 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:"EPSCA Chairman is Julian Clissold, who is an ECF NED"

which does not necessarily mean that EPSCA is part of ECF...
It isn't, just pointing out that contacting 1 person allows you to contact 2 organisations, and you have an ECF director who is immersed in junior chess
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Michael Flatt
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Michael Flatt » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:40 am

From the UK Chess Academy website, I found the following:

"PRIZES: The WINNER of each section will receive a Plate and £30. PLUS an invitation to represent the UK Chess Academy in the International Chess Events in 2015. (More details will be announced at the event)."

So it appears that players no longer represent England, but rather the UK Chess Academy.

This might have arisen from the fact that the UK comprises the four home countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Michael Flatt » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:03 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Michael Flatt wrote: Who are on the committee of UK Chess Academy?
As far as I understand it, it's a commercial training business, so I doubt it has a committee in the sense you imply.

It's got involved in a row with the ECF, or at least I think this is what these are about.

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... p?f=7&t=95
http://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS ... nex_15.pdf
Thank you, Roger. You are a mine of useful information

From information in the FIDE Trainers' Commission, it appears that UK Chess Academy attempted to direct their application for registration through the ECF but gained no response and no support.

They, therefore, made an independent application which is now subject to an Appeal from the ECF. The grounds of the Appeal are not given.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Carl Hibbard » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:30 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Michael Flatt wrote: Who are on the committee of UK Chess Academy?
As far as I understand it, it's a commercial training business, so I doubt it has a committee in the sense you imply.

It's got involved in a row with the ECF, or at least I think this is what these are about.

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... p?f=7&t=95
http://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS ... nex_15.pdf
Thank you, Roger. You are a mine of useful information

From information in the FIDE Trainers' Commission, it appears that UK Chess Academy attempted to direct their application for registration through the ECF but gained no response and no support.

They, therefore, made an independent application which is now subject to an Appeal from the ECF. The grounds of the Appeal are not given.
Are you expecting an answer from the other forum?
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Michael Farthing » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:18 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote: Are you expecting an answer from the other forum?
I'd give Michael better odds of getting an answer than of you getting one about moderation! [I can't see the odds are that good for either of you].

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Carl Hibbard » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:23 pm

Michael Farthing wrote:
Carl Hibbard wrote: Are you expecting an answer from the other forum?
I'd give Michael better odds of getting an answer than of you getting one about moderation! [I can't see the odds are that good for either of you].
No I might even get moderated for asking for moderation.
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:33 am

"It isn't, just pointing out that contacting 1 person allows you to contact 2 organisations, and you have an ECF director who is immersed in junior chess"

Thanks Mick, I appreciate that, I think we're at cross purposes - I was just pointing out the Byzantine complexities of junior chess organisation! And I see since that, we have another example.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:17 am

Carl Hibbard wrote: Are you expecting an answer from the other forum?
It has in fact provoked a response
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... &t=95#p522

It still reads like a turf war. I don't think adult players care one way or the other. Whether you can be defaulted for having a mobile phone in your possession is rather more relevant.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:48 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Carl Hibbard wrote: Are you expecting an answer from the other forum?
It has in fact provoked a response
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... &t=95#p522

It still reads like a turf war. I don't think adult players care one way or the other. Whether you can be defaulted for having a mobile phone in your possession is rather more relevant.
Roger, I think that your comments are spot on. As pointed out by others Junior Chess in England is seriously fragmented. Perhaps, that is one of its strengths!

Most people are probably following the British Championships. There are some interesting clashes.

E Michael White
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by E Michael White » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:46 pm

I think its a great shame that the selectors have moved away from a formal TPR assessment to an informal TPR system. In effect the selectors form their own TPR basis by using a loose Bayesian connection on results, of which they are aware, to assess what a players strength may be to achieve those results. Using ECF grades and FIDE grades separately suffers from geographical discrepancies; these are ironed out to some degree by a formal TPR basis. If the TPR norms used during the last 2 years were producing too many or too few qualifiers that should have been fine tuned out by level variation.

One or two juniors spoke to me, at a tournament recently, about the previous formal TPR basis and were in favour of it as it motivated and gave a sense of achievement when meeting it.

Rad Kadengal
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Rad Kadengal » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:37 pm

Rad Kadengal wrote: If I see Lawrence at Aberystwyth I will try speak to him about this
Spoke to Lawrence about this proposal. He had read this thread but is prohibited by the ECF Board to post here!!

As I understand, he is not against trying it out the policy. His concern was how the 'quality control' will be done for the open quota.

The first-come-first-served (like a cinema entry) will not be good because 'insider information' will disadvantage players. Therefore the organisers
will have to use ECF or FIDE grading to filter the entrants.

This is not difficult task.

> Who will take it to the next step, to move it to get the ECF to release the quota?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:50 pm

Rad Kadengal wrote: Spoke to Lawrence about this proposal. He had read this thread but is prohibited by the ECF Board to post here!!
That opens up its own can of worms. If the ECF Board have forbidden Directors to post on this forum, why cannot the reply or announcement be posted on the "official" forum?

I still think the ECF Board are suffering from a misunderstanding of Google. It's because they are interested in chess that ecforum material comes in high for them on a Google search. Those more interested in record labels, cycling or electronic vaping would find results they were interested in. A more neutral search such as duckduckgo comes up with material on the English Opening on a search for English Chess.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Junior selection: FIDE World/European Championships

Post by Michael Farthing » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:30 pm

Rad Kadengal wrote: Spoke to Lawrence about this proposal. He had read this thread but is prohibited by the ECF Board to post here!!
Roger wrote:That opens up its own can of worms. If the ECF Board have forbidden Directors to post on this forum, why cannot the reply or announcement be posted on the "official" forum?
This is Chinese whispers with subtle escalation.

A more accurate statement might be that Lawrence has been advised against posting in this thread. Careful inspection of the ECF minutes might give clues as to why. It might merit 'advised' being upgraded to 'very strongly advised'. This may also answer Roger's final point. I do not believe Lawrence has been forbidden to post here in general. A number of board officials post here (sometimes with exact duplicates of their posts on the ECF forum [or maybe the other way round?]). If the board is forbidding them to do so, it is clearly not being effective. This is hardly surprising since it has no authority to do so. At least one ECF official has stated categorically that no attempt has been made to stop him posting here.

I believe the ECF forum is dangerously divisive. I also believe it is failing. I also believe assertions should be based on good evidence. I see no good evidence for what is alleged in the quotations above. I believe the allegations quoted are essentially inaccurate.

My views are somewhat more than guesswork.

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