"SavetheUKCC" petition

National developments, strategies and ideas.
Alan Kennedy
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Alan Kennedy » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:15 pm

John Upham wrote: The valuable data is that for the schools stage when the forms are sent out in December to participating schools from previous seasons.
Good point John - the schools would be largely outside the realm of the data protection act (but not entirely) as a school is not personal data. I had a long conversation with the information commissioners office via live chat about the issue if anyone wants to see a copy of the the detail about which bits of the data protection act apply pls pm me. Has Mike Basman formulated any plans as yet for whether he is able to affect a rescue which I presume will be particularly difficult given the reputational loss and difficulties getting a credit card machine. If he starts trading again HMRC may also ask him to give security in respect of VAT - any news on that front.

Alan

John Swain
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by John Swain » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:35 pm

Mike Basman has made another statement in his "Save the UKCC" campaign, claiming that he is being treated like Alan Turing:

http://delanceyukschoolschesschallenge. ... Poster.pdf

Brendan O'Gorman
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Brendan O'Gorman » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:42 pm

Fabulously over the top paranoia.

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JustinHorton
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:50 pm

Canaries in coal-mines were crushed underfoot?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Andrew Martin
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Andrew Martin » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:14 pm

Once they had been taken from their cages and hurled to the floor, probably yes.

Gary Kenworthy

Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Gary Kenworthy » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:06 pm

Hello Andrew,
yes, nice reply to a weird comment.
Some of Alan Turing's closest work colleagues at Bletchley Park would and did disagree with the suicide verdict, though.
I don't think anybody wants to be in Mike Basman's shoes at the moment. He did do wrong according to the prevailing law. He now needs to fully co-operate with the authorities, else it really will come much worse for him. (sounds like it is).
Rgds GK
p.s. Schools list are not personal confidential data - never made that point. Compiling and holding personal data and ensuring its accuracy is a major problem.

Neill Cooper
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Neill Cooper » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:08 pm

John Swain wrote:Mike Basman has made another statement in his "Save the UKCC" campaign, claiming that he is being treated like Alan Turing:
http://delanceyukschoolschesschallenge. ... Poster.pdf
"On August 8th, 2016 HMRC (Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs), bankrupted International Chess Master, Michael Basman, to the tune of £300,000, and effectively closed his children’s chess tournament, The UK Chess Challenge."

I think that this clearly states what Mike thinks is the sad future of UK Chess Challenge. It has been great whilst it lasted, but it is now 'effectively closed'. It now for others to build on the foundations UKCC has provided.
Last edited by Neill Cooper on Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Simon Brown
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Simon Brown » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:22 pm

The irony is that even if the petition were successful (which it won't be), Mike still needs to find £300k as any ruling won't be retrospective. And rolling out the Human Rights card again, so witheringly despatched at the Appeal, would be laughable if it weren't so ridiculous.

It's not like playing on with K v K&Q and hoping for stalemate, or even trying a dubious tactic to hoodwink an opponent (a suitable analogy given my one and only experience of UKCC); rather the sets and boards have been packed away, prizes given out, off to the pub and look forward to the next match. It's over.

Whether UKCC survives is a separate matter.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:34 pm

I've hesitated to post on here as I don't want to sound unkind to Mike Basman, particularly as he is obviously in real difficulty, but (as Simon Brown, above, and others suggest) this petition is a waste of everyone's time. A poster depicting Mike as Don Quixote would, in all honesty, have been nearer the mark than St George.

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JustinHorton
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:37 pm

Who gets to be Sancho Panza in this analogy? Or Rocinante?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Gary Kenworthy

Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Gary Kenworthy » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:28 pm

Simon's point on the petition is true, like quite a few of us have said. A waste of time and space from several media attempts, BBoards, their threads etc.
Probably more harm than good. The stalemate will just not happen. Mike Basman is in very serious trouble.
Silly jokes are not best.
Again, Mike clearly has to co-operate with the authorities, the only likely issue is the length.

Senior and experienced people in British chess are aware of a number of those who have committed:- fraud, theft, false accounting, non-payment of various taxes, etc.
After they finished their time and re-hab, then quite a few then did some great jobs for chess. But, Mike is getting on, though.

Again, other threads should now concentrate on the future of junior chess, otherwise, without the seed corn, there is no proper future.
Rgds (FM) Gary K

Gary Kenworthy

Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Gary Kenworthy » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:49 am

Trading under UKCC kills off that as an entity. There has to be a new named Phoenix entity. It is best to perform a SWOT analysis and borrow the best ideas, and especially retain a list of lessons learnt, i.e. not to fall into similar pitfalls again.

Those who have criminal records will not be allowed to work with vulnerable adults and young children.

No time to be wasted on trying to put chess on the National curriculum, you will only get hostile replies, loses friends to influence people.

Nor waste time on Chess as a Sport, because all avenues by groups like Sport England are multi-covered and water tight. The prior chances were blown. You just lose friends and openings that influence people.

However, you can get leverage by the word Chess being used an accolade to describe the best, the most challenging, the most complicated, the toughest of other activities, such as used in commerce, pastimes and sports. We have a brand, a word that is an envy to many other groups. Something to build upon, a way forward. See chess in the media for several more posts coming on this. Do not halt at just being bemused and amused by these collections compiled from various mediums.

Then, when suitably armed and well prepared with proofs and evidence, look to seek changes in the taxation laws and classification of a number of activities involving chess. (i.e get the move order right, also not to try retrospective changes to the prevailing Law of the Land as well).

This thread needs to be wound down then fully wound up, but archived and remembered, not brushed under the carpet without any conclusions, else it will happen again.

Rgds (FM) Gary Kenworthy

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JustinHorton
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:34 am

Gary Kenworthy wrote:See chess in the media for several more posts coming on this.
Well, hopefully not, as that thread's really about mentions of chess in the media rather than sonething completely different.
Gary Kenworthy wrote:This thread needs to be wound down then fully wound up
I wonder if that might depend on further developments in Mike Basman's crusade against his tax obligations?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:44 am

On MB's latest statement, Turing was guilty according to the law at the time, (given the age of some of his friends, probably would still be today), so perhaps not the greatest example to choose. (It is also unlikely that Turing committed suicide.)

Gary Kenworthy

Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Gary Kenworthy » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:00 am

Hi Kevin,
Yes. Plus,
The Law on Homosexuality was later changed in the 1960s, by the Home Secretary Roy Jenkins, a miner son. ----who during WWII -- Bletchley Park c. 1942 - September 1945. Block F, Testery; (manual attack on Lorenz) later Block H, Newmanry.(Heath Robinson/ Colossus attack (American codeword "computer" ) attack on the non-morse traffic - i.e. personal teleprinters of Adolf Hitler and the Chiefs of Commands etc. [Rather shorten WWII considerably].
But, no mention of his outrageous lover before the War of Tony Crosland was needed I assume? I assume the fellow Cabinet Minister gave support to the bill?

The Chief Cryptography at BP, (section X) who shared the "cottage" with Alan Turing, had been more than good friends with Lytton Strachey.

The head of security was Kim Philby, (section IX) I assume he did not self turn himself in as a security risk with relationships with Antony Blunt, and Guy Burgess.etc

etc etc

Maybe the moral is that some men are analysed and evaluated differently for handling and treatment (cf Michael Crewdson on his constituent of Dr Stephen Ward of Scandal fame, that more than rocked the HM Government).

Another morale: Also laws can be changed for the future, but some men have to be sacrificed in this cause, / in the winning of the game. Make sure you are not endgamed. [Kim Phiby did not bat an eyelid who he had killed - Not just limited to the likes of Colonel Smiley's people in Albania].

With the Korean war, Turing did not have a chance. James Jesus Angelton (advised by Philby) did a number of double blunder moves.
Good to see that Hugh Alexander spoke at the trial (Also rather refutes the Imitation Game film as well-).

Best regards (FM) Gary Kenworthy.

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