Offering and accepting draws

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Roger Lancaster
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Offering and accepting draws

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:04 pm

The organisers at one junior event earlier this month apparently drew attention to the fact that very few juniors seem to know the procedure for offering/accepting draws. "They just stick their hand out and say 'Draw?'", was the observation which from my experience I think is broadly true. Procedure in the FIDE Laws for offering draws (although there is rarely a penalty for minor infringements here) is to make one's move, offer the draw, and only then press one's clock.

Of course, even in adult chess, it sometimes happens that the player on move thinks for 10 minutes and then, without making a move, offers a draw. Juniors need to know how to deal with this situation. Otherwise they may feel forced into making a yes/no reply when in fact the recommended course is to keep all options open with "Thank you but I'd like to see your next move before deciding". This will be obvious to all the battle-scared veterans on this site but not to a youngster new to the game and it's certainly something we're intending to include in our club's junior training.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:10 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:The organisers at one junior event earlier this month apparently drew attention to the fact that very few juniors seem to know the procedure for offering/accepting draws. "They just stick their hand out and say 'Draw?'", was the observation which from my experience I think is broadly true. Procedure in the FIDE Laws for offering draws (although there is rarely a penalty for minor infringements here) is to make one's move, offer the draw, and only then press one's clock.

Of course, even in adult chess, it sometimes happens that the player on move thinks for 10 minutes and then, without making a move, offers a draw. Juniors need to know how to deal with this situation. Otherwise they may feel forced into making a yes/no reply when in fact the recommended course is to keep all options open with "Thank you but I'd like to see your next move before deciding". This will be obvious to all the battle-scared veterans on this site but not to a youngster new to the game and it's certainly something we're intending to include in our club's junior training.
I noticed this technique for offering a draw in two games on consecutive boards at the J4NCL last weekend (not from Watford I hasten to add!). I think they had made their move first though so the only issue was that the hands were left hanging in mid-air.

I was offered a draw by an adult in a league game this season who hadn't moved but rather than say that I'd think about it whilst his time ran out I asked him to move and said I'd think about it. Those who know me won't be totally surprised to learn that I accepted the offer.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:12 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote: Of course, even in adult chess, it sometimes happens that the player on move thinks for 10 minutes and then, without making a move, offers a draw.
What can also happen is that the player not on the move will offer a draw in response to a long think by the player with the move. That's not in accordance with the Laws of Chess, but sometimes welcome, if the reason for a long think is an inability to find a decent continuation.

What you could also instruct juniors is that there are some players out there, who whilst not objecting to an early peace offering, will have indicated their intent to continue play until the position totally lacks winning possibilities. In these circumstances repeated draw offers are frowned upon.

Clive Blackburn

Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by Clive Blackburn » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:17 pm

I don't really think it matters all that much at Junior level if the correct procedure is not followed. If a Junior offers me a handshake then that is fine, I will either shake hands with them or say that I will play on.

What is annoying though is the habit of some juniors of offering repeated draws (sometimes after every move) even though I have made it quite clear that I won't accept one.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by Michael Farthing » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:20 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
What you could also instruct juniors is that there are some players out there, who whilst not objecting to an early peace offering, will have indicated their intent to continue play until the position totally lacks winning possibilities. In these circumstances repeated draw offers are frowned upon.
Yes, I'm one of those. I sort of feel that until a game is clearly dead drawn it's a waste not to continue exploring its possibilities. I'm afraid it tends to make me a bit abrupt in refusing the draw. Sometimes I even warn my opponent about this failing before play starts!

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:23 pm

I agree with the issue of incessantly repeated offers although, here, we already tell our juniors that this can be said to amount to annoying/distracting an opponent with the possibility of penalties. Most, although not quite all, have taken the point.

Barry Sandercock
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by Barry Sandercock » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:32 pm

A couple of years ago I played a junior in an E2E4 Congress who kept offering draws, which I declined. We arrived at a position where I was about to mate in two. He stopped the clock and put his hand out which I shook, assuming he was resigning. We passed the score sheets to each other for signing and I noticed he had shown a draw on his. Fortunately, I got the Controller to look at the board position and the matter was sorted out O.K. It made me realise that one should always check to see what the opponent has shown in the result when signing the score sheet ( obvious really, I suppose. )

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:06 pm

That particular "gambit" has been tried - on occasion successfully - at international level before now.
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NickFaulks
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:47 am

I was involved in a case where both sides genuinely believed they had won ( although my opponent insisted that I was lying ). The Chief Arbiter gave a twist to the Judgment of Solomon by awarding us both a full point.
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NickFaulks
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:57 am

In a league game last season, when a rook up but scrambling to escape perpetual check, I noticed that I had stumbled into mate next move. I offered my hand and my opponent shook it, believing that he was accepting a draw. Yes, I did the right thing.
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Roger Lancaster
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by Roger Lancaster » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:02 am

NickFaulks wrote:In a league game last season, when a rook up but scrambling to escape perpetual check, I noticed that I had stumbled into mate next move. I offered my hand and my opponent shook it, believing that he was accepting a draw. Yes, I did the right thing.
Very similar experience - some years ago I played a game where, in the final position, each player believed he was losing although neither knew of the other's fears. (It was an ending which revolved around who could promote faster). My opponent silently stuck out his hand and I was about to accept his draw offer when I realised that wasn't why he had reached out. I later pondered what would have happened if I had wordlessly shaken his hand and we had reported different results - it's not usual for players to agree a 0-0.5 result!

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John Upham
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by John Upham » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:09 am

NickFaulks wrote:I was involved in a case where both sides genuinely believed they had won ( although my opponent insisted that I was lying ). The Chief Arbiter gave a twist to the Judgment of Solomon by awarding us both a full point.

Was this game played in the Mind Sports Olympiad many moons ago?
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Clive Blackburn

Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by Clive Blackburn » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:14 am

I was at a congress some years ago and a middle-aged player in the U.160 section miscalculated and found that he had a totally lost ending against a lower-graded junior. Both players were getting short of time.

The junior made a move and the older player held out his hand. Assuming that he was resigning, the junior was about to shake when the older player said "Draw, yes?"

I have never seen a player withdraw his hand so quickly! They played on for a few more moves and the junior won easily.

To avoid possible confusion, I think that a handshake should always be accompanied by a few words conveying either that you agree to a draw or that you are resigning.

Barry Sandercock
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by Barry Sandercock » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:22 am

Good advice.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Offering and accepting draws

Post by Roger Lancaster » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:26 am

Clive Blackburn wrote:
To avoid possible confusion, I think that a handshake should always be accompanied by a few words conveying either that you agree to a draw or that you are resigning.
Good advice indeed although I'd be inclined to replace "accompanied" by "preceded".

I introduced this topic to mention that many juniors are blissfully ignorant of the correct procedure regarding draws but the above examples, including my own, suggest that we adults are not always without fault here.

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