ECF Grading Database

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Roger Lancaster
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ECF Grading Database

Post by Roger Lancaster » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:43 pm

The publicly available version of the grading database no longer shows juniors' ages. It has been pointed out to me that this creates an added difficulty for, for example, the managers of county junior teams who have consequently lost a reference point for juniors' ages - and, consequently, their eligibility for a particular age-specific team. Does anyone know whether this omission is a conscious decision or an accidental occurrence? The 'Top players' facility still identifies the top 100 players in each age-group but, of course, is no use for anyone outside the top 100.

David Stott
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by David Stott » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:49 pm

The ages of all juniors with a current ECF grade can still be found in Column D of the Excel file at www.ecfgrading.org.uk/files/201808.csv

Reg Clucas
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by Reg Clucas » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:13 pm

David Stott wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:49 pm
The ages of all juniors with a current ECF grade can still be found in Column D of the Excel file at www.ecfgrading.org.uk/files/201808.csv
The correct link is http://www.ecfgrading.org.uk/files/grades201808.csv

Alex Holowczak
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:16 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:43 pm
The publicly available version of the grading database no longer shows juniors' ages.
Annoying, isn't it? GDPR, apparently. I lost that battle to the lawyers.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:18 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:16 pm
Annoying, isn't it? GDPR, apparently. I lost that battle to the lawyers.
Suspected as much! And a quick thank you to the trio who have contributed information here!

John Upham
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by John Upham » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:05 am

I can believe GDPR expecting birthdates not to be visible but not showing age is OTT.

They weren't even real ages but ECF ages !

Yet more stupid political correctness gone wrong.

Nick Thomas
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by Nick Thomas » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:21 pm

It's a real pain

Have I got this right?

1) GDPR is being used as the reason not to show children's school year on the online list?
2) Showing childrens full name, gender and their school and/or chess club is OK?
3) If you are a top player for your age (school year) it is OK to show your age (or to be more precise your maximum school year) on the top player list?
4) It is OK to let anyone download the list which shows all children's school years anyway?

Is anyone of the opinion that this is anything but nonsense?

Roger Lancaster
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:43 pm

It's a nonsense but, knowing the innate caution of lawyers, if the ECF lawyers had realised what Nick realises then they would have banned even more.

Michael Flatt
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by Michael Flatt » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:11 pm

FIDE who are also subject to (European) GDPR continues to publish the birth year of all players, with the exception of the few players who registered before FIDE started to collect that information.

Will the ECF withhold the names of participants in age restricted competitions (such as the British Chess Championships) since indivividual's ages can be estimated from the competitions they enter?

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:57 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:11 pm
FIDE who are also subject to (European) GDPR continues to publish the birth year of all players
FIDE remove this information when requested to do so, which is believed to be good enough.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:05 am

Michael Flatt wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:11 pm
FIDE who are also subject to (European) GDPR continues to publish the birth year of all players, with the exception of the few players who registered before FIDE started to collect that information.

Will the ECF withhold the names of participants in age restricted competitions (such as the British Chess Championships) since indivividual's ages can be estimated from the competitions they enter?
I'm not here as an apologist for lawyers (and they would no doubt feel insulted if I claimed otherwise) but my understanding of the legal thinking is that personal information such as dates of birth should be published only if there is sound reason for doing so. That being so, I imagine the legal advice given to Alex H was to the effect that publishing ages merely - as the lawyers would likely have seen it - to satisfy the curiosity of other chess players was insufficient reason.

I suspect Michael's question was rhetorical, otherwise a veil of secrecy would have to descend over, for example, England youth football teams. But I suppose one could construct an argument that what applies to age should logically apply also to gender, and one can visualise a scenario where someone from the transgender community might argue precisely this point. However, that's about as off topic as off topic can get!

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:26 am

"I suspect Michael's question was rhetorical, otherwise a veil of secrecy would have to descend over, for example, England youth football teams. "

That happens to some extent as the FA ruled that newspapers must not publish really one-sided results, like 12-1, but call them 2-0, (the losers might be upset) and hence of course not publish lists of goal-scorers. There is also great wariness at publishing names and photographs of prize-winners of anything, including chess.

Protection of children (etc.) is obviously paramount, but some of the things that are required do seem extreme.

Michael Flatt
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by Michael Flatt » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:51 am

My post was intended to highlight the different responses of organisations to the same legislation and not to criticise either of them.

If an organisation wants to remove age and gender information from public view but still make it available to registered organisers of events it could be done through the Master Grading list to which all registered ECF graders have access.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: ECF Grading Database

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:58 am

Michael Flatt wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:51 am
My post was intended to highlight the different responses of organisations to the same legislation and not to criticise either of them.

If an organisation wants to remove age and gender information from public view but still make it available to registered organisers of events it could be done through the Master Grading list to which all registered ECF graders have access.
Sorry, no criticism intended of your earlier post - yes, the whole thing's a mess. But, vis-à-vis your latest post, the practical drawback with a restricted list is that inevitably some people with good reason for wanting to use it would be barred from doing so. For example, taking your suggestion, not all organisers of events (and I can declare a personal interest here!) are also registered ECF graders.

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