ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:26 pm

David Pardoe wrote: What we dont need
If you are appearing on the Today program to talk about chess, a claim of "amongst the most active players twelve years ago" and "withdrew from Grand Prix whilst amongst the leaders" is just as good as " the most active player" and "withdrew from Grand Prix whilst leading". If however you are being interviewed about your candidacy for ECF President, the latter statements will sound more impressive to the potential electorate.

If you find a couple of statements exaggerated, you start to wonder what else isn't all it's claimed to be.

David Pardoe
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by David Pardoe » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:15 pm

Sounding impressive to the electorate.....??
Yes, you`re right that the candidate(s) must strike a positive note...
However, presenting a case via `Candidate Statements` is a tricky art. Some might say, in cricketing terms, its about applying the right spin...and good `content`..
And the electorate will make the final call, based on how they percieve the candidates, and above all, what they percieve the candidate(s) might bring to the table.....
Then, of course, comes the moment of taking office, when reality sets in...and the key issues start to crystalise...
This might well be a year when the ECF simply stands back and takes stock....
Priorities..... stablising finances....boosting membership....engaging with the members more meaningfully....catering for our `top guns`...supporting and encouraging junior membership...
And...the International scene
Then you might add....our Corporate status...are we really a Charity? Are we really a `Sport`?
Are we getting too bogged down with `corporate baggage`....?
Is there too much power at the centre...in the hands of too few...?
But more importantly..what about our officers? Are they being over worked and over burdoned?
Do we need more volunteers to take the load....should we restructure the `board` to make it more representative of all our regions...?
Many might feel that Britain has become too `south centric`....all the power and jobs seems to have migrated south....?
Just thoughts.....
I guess that our membership wil have many other views about ECF priorities, and what needs to be addressed.
BRING BACK THE BCF

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:49 pm

David Pardoe wrote: Do we need more volunteers to take the load....should we restructure the `board` to make it more representative of all our regions...?
Many might feel that Britain has become too `south centric`....all the power and jobs seems to have migrated south....?
The Board can only be what applications to fill Board posts will allow it to be. At the forthcoming AGM, there will be eight applicants for ten Board posts, so the Board will have to find people to fill at least the CEO and International Director positions, and possibly others. If you know of people from the North who want to take on those roles, feel free to give their names to us for consideration.

David Robertson

Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by David Robertson » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:16 pm

Dave....Par...doe...
for.....CE....O

Sean Hewitt
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:28 pm

David Pardoe wrote:Did I read that CJ has offered to underwrite the 2013 Torquay British...if so, I hope the offer still stands and it would be a great gesture. Maybe this was CJ`s way of contributing positively to British Chess.
:lol:

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:52 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote: Normally I wouldn’t consider the President’s views on operational matters particularly relevant. Presidents are often people who are a bit out of touch.
It comes back to what type of President you want and get. If the President is someone with many years of ECF involvement, they are going to be that much more "exec" than someone from outside the ECF such as a sports star, a media personality, a retired GM or a senior journalist. What I think the ECF must avoid when appointing an insider is the job for life attitude typified by one of the recent Presidents. Make the duration of office strictly limited!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:05 pm

David Pardoe wrote: Did I read that CJ has offered to underwrite the 2013 Torquay British

You did, but not from CJ or the ECF Board. It was a claim made by Alex McF, who was probably in a position to know. The nature of the commitment is unknown or at least unpublished

It makes a good question for the AGM to ask about the financial status of the 2013 Congress.Putting £ 10 on every entry fee could raise around £ 10,000 as long as VAT wasn't an issue.

(To explain that, suppose Torquay, or anywhere, asks for £ 8,000 for room hire and adds VAT on top. So you pay out £ 9,600. The ECF adds £ 8 to every entry fee, adds VAT, so asks for £ 9.60 per entry. 1,000 entries raises the required £ 9,600. When the ECF does its VAT Return it offsets the entry fee VAT with the venue VAT)

William Metcalfe
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by William Metcalfe » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:16 pm

I have not really contributed to this thread so far i have only just read Rogers statement and i have to say i have problems with a lot of the statement.The President should be a figurehead position somebody to bring good publicity to English chess somebody to bring people together and unify some of the fractions that prevail in English chess.I really fear Rogers statement could cause more problems and divisions this is the last thing English chess needs at this moment in time.I think we have had enough divisions recently it really needs to stop now.So for me if Roger does win the election we should vote for Seans proposal.Membership and chess activities should be left to the new Ceo and the board to work out it is not a place for the President to be meddling in.Obviously he has a opinion and a vote but he should not be leading the debate
On other issues i have tried to get more NCCU people involved in the Ecf other than Rupert people did not want to get involved at the moment this may change if we have a period of stability.
I am speaking here for myself and not the NCCU which i am now president of

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Adam Raoof
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by Adam Raoof » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:27 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
David Pardoe wrote: Did I read that CJ has offered to underwrite the 2013 Torquay British

You did, but not from CJ or the ECF Board. It was a claim made by Alex McF, who was probably in a position to know. The nature of the commitment is unknown or at least unpublished

It makes a good question for the AGM to ask about the financial status of the 2013 Congress.Putting £ 10 on every entry fee could raise around £ 10,000 as long as VAT wasn't an issue.

(To explain that, suppose Torquay, or anywhere, asks for £ 8,000 for room hire and adds VAT on top. So you pay out £ 9,600. The ECF adds £ 8 to every entry fee, adds VAT, so asks for £ 9.60 per entry. 1,000 entries raises the required £ 9,600. When the ECF does its VAT Return it offsets the entry fee VAT with the venue VAT)
Irrespective of the truth or otherwise of anything quoted above, it won't affect the entry fees for Torquay - they will be comparable to previous years.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
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harrylamb
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by harrylamb » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:35 pm

I am not getting at anyone, but I was amused by the closeness in this thread of two comments. I am writing this in the hope that you too will share my amusement and smile.
Roger de Coverly wrote:
David Pardoe wrote: Many might feel that Britain has become too `south centric`
1986 was the first year of the national system and NCCU excepted, seemed to go smoothly.
It would appear that not a single Northen player was listed in the 1986 BCF grading list. If one replaces NCCU with SCCU and not a single SCCU player player appeared in the ECF grading list, would Roger still consider everything had gone smoothly!

I write this of course as a MCCU player and therefore neutral in this matter.
Last edited by harrylamb on Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No taxation without representation

Alex McFarlane
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by Alex McFarlane » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:45 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:Irrespective of the truth or otherwise of anything quoted above
Adam, if you have any doubts about the truth of my statement can I suggest that you re-read your Board minutes. I would agree with you if you are suggesting Roger's figure is slightly high.

For clarity my info came from Board Members both current and past.

In the hypothetical situation of an additional £6500 (+VAT) having to be raised, where would you envisage this coming from?

Martin Regan

Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by Martin Regan » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:37 pm

Well now where to begin. :roll:

It would help if people read what was in a post before scurrying to condemn what was not said. It would also help if some posters were not dammed by a certain inflexibilty of thought.

I said I believed that the candidate was not suited to be ECF President - in an election I would think this is a view I am perfectly entitled to hold. I was then asked to flesh out my vague thoughts, so I added flesh.

I made clear that I believe the candidate to be a decent, hardworking individual and a good arbiter.

I would further add that had the candidate been nominated for, say, Chairman of Governance, I would have regarded this as a good thing.

I do not believe, as some on this board appear to, that a man lacking the qualities to be a good ECF President is in anyway diminished by that. Some people are more suited to some jobs than others.

Harry Lamb wrote a long, detailed post in which he dissected (with the bravado of those who can afford no more than ten minutes research but have unwarranted faith in their own intellect) my suggestion that the candidate was involved in the grading fiasco, and, at least in his mind's eye, "proved" the error of my recollections.

I could be more vitriolic at this point, but instead I would point those interested in facts to the two letters the candidate wrote to the Management Board at the time more or less accepting the points outlined in my earlier post - one of these I believe is available for viewing on the SCCU.

In passing, I never thought I would see the day when Harry Lamb would use the fact of ECF honours as proof itself of veracity of the thing they honour. But, of course, winning the argument (even when you are arguing with yourself,) is just sooo important to some. Harry, I never knew you held the ECF management in such huge regard. Indeed, I could have sworn you referred to the management you now quote in your support as a "mafia" and "shake-down merchants" :lol:

Let me make it as clear as I can for those "as can't think straight", I do not believe the candidate is suited to be a good ECF President. In saying this I do not for a moment discount the possibility that as a man he may well be as wise as Solomon and as noble as Galahad. The two thoughts can exist together.

And finally, I can not let Krishna's comments go without response.

I had wondered whether you were, what we in the North call a WUM (wind-up merchant), I mean no disrespect in that, and I accept that you are not. But it takes a breathtaking lack of self-awareness to go around calling people liars and ethic-less and then to be outraged at rather minor rebuttals. I choose to believe it is innocence. And that as with the Graham Greene charactor you are "like a leper without a bell, walking around meaning no harm."

Happy voting.

John McKenna

Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by John McKenna » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:00 pm

Yes, happy voting for the happy few. And, you don't have to be worried about the odd case of leprosy or a 'tripe' epidemic. However, you, me and the ECF should be be worried about a plague - the plague of debt that is abroad and at home, too. Perhaps Martin Regan is one of the happy few who is immune to it and thus can just ignore it and carry on as usual.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:44 pm

harrylamb wrote:It would appear that not a single Northen player was listed in the 1986 BCF grading list. If one replaces NCCU with SCCU and not a single SCCU player player appeared in the ECF grading list, would Roger still consider everything had gone smoothly!
I believe the issue was that the NCCU was having one of its periodic huffs with the BCF and didn't submit any data. Presumably they graded NCCU players for an NCCU only list as they would have done before the national system. Any NCCU players playing in the other Unions would have got a grade if they had played enough to qualify for inclusion.

Had the SCCU declined to submit data and instead maintained its own list, the BCF's list would have been about half the size.

So I think the problems with the NCCU and the 1986 list were political rather than technical. The problems with the 1987 list were definitely technical and the 1988 list implies no NCCU data for the 1987 list either.

David Pardoe
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Re: ECF Director elections for 2012/13

Post by David Pardoe » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:54 pm

SOME BRIEF POINTS...
Firstly, we must be careful not to (unintentionally or otherwise) represent `positions`, by quoting selected `facts` that at best tell only half a story. These bb`s are notoriously bad for debate of complex issues, and for digging out stuff from history. And when you are dealing with very difficult issues like grading (which has long been regarded as `the proverbial, Can of Worms`), problems become even more magnified, and potentially distorted.
Jack Rudd made a very good point earlier, when he said...where are all the volunteers...those exceptional talents who could deliver miricals in there spare time...or just offer to serve with there `limited` talants....for which we should be grateful.
Surely, with a pool of active OTB players numbering circa 15,000, we can find the handful required to keep the ECF on a steady course....preferably without having to bust a gut working 24/7 to succeed .
BRING BACK THE BCF

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