Governance Consultation - Council Voting Register

[Roger de Coverly]

Which other sports allow non-members to compete in competitions that are graded, rated or ranked?
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Is it your case that non-members of a national body should be banned from playing chess? It would appear so. Who also supports this? Speak up, so we know where you stand on promoting chess.

[John Upham]

Is it your case that non-members of a national body should be banned from playing chess? It would appear so. Who also supports this? Speak up, so we know where you stand on promoting chess.

Anyone can play chess without having to be a member of the ECF.

What about the legions who play on-line who are are residents of England and not ECF members?

I supervise and encourage much junior chess and almost none of them are ECF members.

Several members of Camberley Chess Club are not members of the ECF but play regularly.

I encourage them also.

Try introducing facts into your nonsense arguments.

[Roger de Coverly]

Anyone can play chess without having to be a member of the ECF.
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Is it your case that non ECF members should not be permitted to play in the Berkshire or Border Leagues? If not, is it your case that their games should not be graded?

[Sean Hewitt]

Alas, Socrates beat me to it - in 5th C Athens, 2500 years ago. And he died poor, killed by the people he sought to help.

He's the dude in the sheets in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, right?

I think you're mistaken Paul. I'm sure Sócrates played for Brazil and, bizarrely, Garforth Town

[Martin Regan]

Paul C - you confuse ambition with difficulty.

I have no doubts whatsoever, that Council could be fairly easily persuaded to change the rules to allow members to vote for the President. Most in Council, despite the bad press, are actually interested in seeing improvements in English Chess.

Giving the members a vote on the five-year plan is entirely within the power of the board.

You could have such measures in place in little over six months -ie after the finance meeting.

[John Philpott]

Martin Regan wrote

You could have such measures in place in little over six months -ie after the finance meeting.

Or even sooner. An EGM is planned for January or February to deal with changes to the Articles and Bye Laws in contemplation of an application for Charitable Status. This is an opportunity in my view to address all appropriate changes to the Articles and Bye Laws, whether these relate to Charitable Status or not, in the context of a meeting that can only deal with the business for which it has been convened and therefore for once should not get sidetracked onto issues relating to CJ de Mooi etc.

[John Upham]

Anyone can play chess without having to be a member of the ECF.
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Is it your case that non ECF members should not be permitted to play in the Berkshire or Border Leagues? If not, is it your case that their games should not be graded?

Roger,

As I answer your questions you then move the goalposts once more.

Once you have sorted your muddled thinking work out the question and try again.

Initially you referred to playing chess and then you changed to playing graded games: which is it to be?

[Roger de Coverly]

Initially you referred to playing chess and then you changed to playing graded games: which is it to be?

Initially I referred to playing chess. I thought the context that it was in competitions. If you are going to bring in social games, that's a diversion, although the Indian Federation would, on paper, ban that as well.

So taking the typical competitive activities of a chess club or Congress, is it your case that non-members of the ECF should be totally excluded from most of them? It's not that difficult a question and table tennis answer it as an exclusion, the only exception being a temporary membership for the duration of a weekend competition.

The Regan answer appears to be no, the suggestion being that non-members don't get a grade. It is unstated whether graded (member) v non graded (non member) would count as graded for the member. If you don't count it, you get a lot more competitions with ungraded players and fewer games graded. If you do count it, then on-line grading histories tell the non-member what their grade was.

[Roger de Coverly]

We get a President, who is supposed to be largely non-executive, with a direct mandate that the board does not.

Recent President elections have been symbolic.

We've had
ECF and FIDE Insider v Challenger unknown outside his region
minor TV star v unknown Council insider
none of the above, but perhaps a write in for a popular GM v well known and long standing ECF insider and function holder

[David Gilbert]

Are all those on the Voting Register members of the ECF. I'm sure someone will know?

[John Philpott]

David Gilbert wrote

Are all those on the Voting Register members of the ECF. I'm sure someone will know?

A member organisation is entitled to appoint whoever it likes as its representative member. Since there is no requirement under the rules for the representative member to be a member of the ECF, I am not inclined to divert myself from more pressing tasks to provide an answer to the question (although I was keeping a careful eye during the run up to the AGM as to whether all candidates for Office were current ECF members, which proved to be just as well in a couple of cases). As both the voting register and the membership list are available on the ECF website, anybody interested has the tools to investigate the matter themselves.

[Roger de Coverly]

Since there is no requirement under the rules for the representative member to be a member of the ECF

Council were quite willing to vote compulsory Gold membership for players, as they did for FIDE rating. They don't apply it to themselves. The MP effect I suppose.

[Brendan O'Gorman]

David Gilbert wrote

Are all those on the Voting Register members of the ECF. I'm sure someone will know?

A member organisation is entitled to appoint whoever it likes as its representative member. Since there is no requirement under the rules for the representative member to be a member of the ECF, I am not inclined to divert myself from more pressing tasks to provide an answer to the question (although I was keeping a careful eye during the run up to the AGM as to whether all candidates for Office were current ECF members, which proved to be just as well in a couple of cases). As both the voting register and the membership list are available on the ECF website, anybody interested has the tools to investigate the matter themselves.

A related question - were any of those casting votes on who should be Director of Membership & Marketing non-members? To avoid seeming disingenuous I should confess I suspect at least one was not. While I appreciate this would have been within the rules, it makes me feel uncomfortable. Scope for a more discriminating rule change?

[Roger de Coverly]

A related question - were any of those casting votes on who should be Director of Membership & Marketing non-members?

The timing of the AGM and the existence of Framework organisations introduces uncertainty into the definition of a member. Whilst the ECF knows its own membership list, it doesn't have the list of those who may have joined through these bodies. But if the ECF Council insists on Gold membership for those who play in FIDE rated events, even those outside of England, perhaps it should insist on the same standard for those who would be its voting members.