4NCL November 3-4 round-up

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL November 3-4 round-up

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:41 pm

Krishna Shiatis wrote: Interesting point. Similar questions were asked when I first suggested we send more juniors abroad and organise more training for juniors. I was told that there was not enough money and it would be practically impossible to send a large team abroad, that there were not enough people to administrate etc etc.
For the junior events, didn't the money just come from the families of those sent?

Having a commentary room is commonplace at the British Championship Congress, the London Classic and Hastings. I don't recall it ever being tried at the 4NCL. Would there be enough spectators to make it viable? But it could be put to a captain's meeting. Should entry fees be increased to provide spectator coverage additional to the live games and game input?

Mike Truran
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Re: 4NCL November 3-4 round-up

Post by Mike Truran » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:52 pm

No, we did try it a few seasons back (I recall it may have been Chris Ward doing the commentary - as usual, someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I think our conclusion was that the level of interest (which we gauged the simple expedient of observing the number of spectators in the room at any one time) didn't really justify the expense involved. So your question about the number of spectators to make it viable is spot on.

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: 4NCL November 3-4 round-up

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:55 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
For the junior events, didn't the money just come from the families of those sent?
Indeed. Though that is not my point. (Though it was at the time because junior chess is self financing - another thread I believe).
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Having a commentary room is commonplace at the British Championship Congress, the London Classic and Hastings. I don't recall it ever being tried at the 4NCL. Would there be enough spectators to make it viable? But it could be put to a captain's meeting. Should entry fees be increased to provide spectator coverage additional to the live games and game input?
I'm not really talking about commentary per se. I was originally saying that the photos, written commentary, games, puzzles from the 4NCL week-ends might be put into a book of some kind and sold. John explained about the system that table tennis uses and that it might be used as a model by the ECF.

My point was that this could be a reality even if money was not readily available if a suitable team was put together. In reality, it already exists - John already takes pictures, Lawrence already writes reports and might be persuaded to write about some interesting games and finally just need somebody to put it all together. This could be the ECF publicity officer.

Just a thought. I am sure others can come up with something better. I was thinking that if people are interested in the photos etc then possibly an opportunity to produce something useful/raise funds/publicise chess at the same time.

Mike Truran
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Re: 4NCL November 3-4 round-up

Post by Mike Truran » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:14 pm

Krishna

It's certainly an interesting thought. Back at the start of the 4NCL Nigel Johnson used to produce a bulletin after each weekend including reports and annotated games. Again, I know not quite what you have in mind - there were no photos and it wasn't a once-a-season production - but I think we found (depressingly) that it needed a lot of effort to produce and the take-up just wasn't there. More than a decade on, when people are even more used than they were to getting their content free and on-line (neither of which requirements a book satisfies, particularly in the notoriously tight-fisted market of chess) I guess my main question would be whether something like that could ever be financially viable.

Krishna Shiatis
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Re: 4NCL November 3-4 round-up

Post by Krishna Shiatis » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:31 pm

Mike Truran wrote:Krishna

It's certainly an interesting thought. Back at the start of the 4NCL Nigel Johnson used to produce a bulletin after each weekend including reports and annotated games. Again, I know not quite what you have in mind - there were no photos and it wasn't a once-a-season production - but I think we found (depressingly) that it needed a lot of effort to produce and the take-up just wasn't there. More than a decade on, when people are even more used than they were to getting their content free and on-line (neither of which requirements a book satisfies, particularly in the notoriously tight-fisted market of chess) I guess my main question would be whether something like that could ever be financially viable.
See your point.

I was not sure if in this day and age it would not be so hard to produce, being as there are people doing the individual components already. My guess would be that with photos and interesting commentary, people would buy it. They do buy the bulletins at the British? Perhaps an e-book might be a more cost effective idea initially.

The hard work has already been done - just need to put it all together and see if anyone is interested in buying. It would be a great memory/keepsake for anyone playing if they are featured alongside the masters. That is what I see when I see the photos. I see memories, I see all levels of chess. I see juniors/club players alongside GMs/IMs. I see lots and lots of people gathered together with nothing to officially mark that they were ever there or officially celebrate their achievements.

You would know more than I as you have historical information. I am just looking at it from an outsiders perspective I guess.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: 4NCL November 3-4 round-up

Post by Peter D Williams » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:07 pm

Krishna Shiatis wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Upham wrote: Yes, I think so. No doubt Stewart did all this 30 years ago but this model works well for the British League and could do for chess.
Apart from being a voting member, the 4NCL is independent of the ECF.

So who is going to organise, and pay for a publicity team in the absence of the millions that ETTA gets from Sport England and other sponsors?
Interesting point. Similar questions were asked when I first suggested we send more juniors abroad and organise more training for juniors. I was told that there was not enough money and it would be practically impossible to send a large team abroad, that there were not enough people to administrate etc etc.

I suggested that the Junior Director might like to organise a team of volunteers around him.



When Phil Ehr came in, he did exactly that (I think Sabrina would have done the same also). It was a very smart move and he has not really looked back.

I am not really sure how the publicity machine for the ECF works, but I think that John's idea is a good one. Also working together with organisations such as 4NCL and London Chess Classic etc for publicity would not hurt anyone.
We where told this to by some not enough money you can not send more than one junior it be to hard to do etc the usual negative remarks one gets from some in the chess world :wink:
It was Peter Purland the last JD and supported by others in the ECF who had this policy of only sending one junior to the worlds.Peter Purland lost the support of a large number of parents players over this policy which in turn made him realize that he could not stand again as JD if PP had been prepared to discuss this policy he could well have stayed on but he refused.The ECF have form of not wanting to discuss issues which in turn leads to more problems for them :wink:
We as a family pointed out many time how outdated this policy was and if you want juniors to stay in chess they must have the hope of thinking i can play for England in Junior events!
Phil the new JD has changed the policy of sending more than one junior and is to be thanked for having the courage to put this in place.I wonder how many on here will say i always supported that idea of sending more than one junior? if i recall PP had a lot of supporters on here?
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 4NCL November 3-4 round-up

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:24 pm

Krishna Shiatis wrote:I was not sure if in this day and age it would not be so hard to produce, being as there are people doing the individual components already. My guess would be that with photos and interesting commentary, people would buy it. They do buy the bulletins at the British? Perhaps an e-book might be a more cost effective idea initially.

The hard work has already been done - just need to put it all together and see if anyone is interested in buying.
"Putting it all together" is harder work than it seems. You need to avoid it looking like it was mashed together in an evening by some volunteer who doesn't have enough time to do it properly. You also need to exercise some editorial discretion to avoid it looking like you've just dumped in everything you have to hand. And if it is being sold, you need to deal with the copyrights properly and so on. Talk with people who have produced reports and edited magazines that published such reports, and see what they think about the time and effort involved.

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