Chess row in Cork

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:02 am

IM Jack Rudd wrote:(i) is easy enough: summon the arbiter. (ii) is also easy enough: co-operate with the arbiter's investigation. (iii) is a lot trickier, and will depend upon the case.
I meant (ii) in the absence of an arbiter. If a player accuses you of this and instead of calling an arbiter gets confrontational. I mean, obviously you then call the arbiter yourself, but some might just be confrontational back. If both players start brawling, it does make the arbiter's job easier (kick both players out).

Richard James
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Richard James » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:30 am

More here.

"I did not assault him. I made a citizen's arrest..."

Hmm.

Chris Rice
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:19 am

It could well be defined as assault under Irish Statute Law. Below is the definition of assault from the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act 1997. In practice though if all the guy did was grab his arm to make a citizen's arrest the police wouldn't prosecute. Clearly though the guy concerned should definitely have continued to let the Arbiter deal with it. Who would want to be an Arbiter eh?

Assault.
2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—
(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or
(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,
without the consent of the other.
(2) In subsection (1) (a), “force” includes—
(a) application of heat, light, electric current, noise or any other form of energy, and
(b) application of matter in solid liquid or gaseous form.
(3) No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person.
(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

Paul Douglass
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Paul Douglass » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:30 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Paul Douglass wrote:Said "victim" should have shut up. It transpires he is not whiter than white.

With regards to the "suspected" cheat - lets hope it wasn't true. If so, a blanket ban from competitive chess is the only punishment. Punitive but fair.

Why people cheat at this game is beyond me. Grading obsessed freaks if you ask me (not as it there's plenty of cash to obsess about!).
Given that he was only sixteen I'm assuming you mean a temporary ban rather than a permanant one. That said, given that he's already reaped a far harsher punishment than he deserved and was presumably left shaken at the very least, it will probably be a while before he has the stomach to look at a chess board again.
No - anyone old enough to use an electronic device for cheating should be banned permanently. Full stop.
Paul Douglass

"Every time I win a tournament I have to think that there is something wrong with modern chess." - Victor Korchnoi

Niall Doran
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Niall Doran » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Paul Douglass wrote: No - anyone old enough to use an electronic device for cheating should be banned permanently. Full stop.
Come on, most of us did some silly things at that age, I don't think a life ban is appropriate. A couple of years maybe, but not life.

For an adult though, assuming that the penalty has already been decided on and published before the incident, the possibility needs to be considered.

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Greg Breed
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Greg Breed » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:45 pm

Niall Doran wrote:
Paul Douglass wrote: No - anyone old enough to use an electronic device for cheating should be banned permanently. Full stop.
Come on, most of us did some silly things at that age, I don't think a life ban is appropriate. A couple of years maybe, but not life.

For an adult though, assuming that the penalty has already been decided on and published before the incident, the possibility needs to be considered.
I agree, kids these days are not brought up the same way and still have to learn that cheating and any kind of bad behaviour is wrong and unacceptable, but they should be given a chance to reflect and return.
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IanDavis
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by IanDavis » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:39 pm

It will be interesting to see what the sentences are.
The chairperson, it seems, is not overly fond of Gabriel Mirza. One could speculate why - belonging to the wrong club, perhaps in more than 1 sense. :)
The cheater is a junior, and a member of Gonzaga College, two factors that may shield him well one might say?
Personally, I expect it all to be swept under the carpet, because that's how these things go.

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Re: Player disqualified from German Championships

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:51 pm

Sam Sloan just posted this to me. Wow! That was certainly over the top.

Player hauls 'cheating' chess teen out of toilet cubicle

By Barry Duggan, Nicola Anderson and Niall O'Connor – 24 April 2013

A chess player in th Republic of Ireland who hauled his schoolboy opponent from a toilet cubicle after he allegedly caught him cheating has no regrets over his actions.

Gardai were called to the Cork Congress Chess Open after the 16-year-old -- who attends a private Dublin school -- was accused of cheating by his rival.

Gabriel Mirza -- former secretary of the Irish Chess Union (ICU) -- said he caught the teen using an Android computer to establish his next move in a toilet cubicle during their match over the weekend.

Mr Mirza (47) said he kicked in the cubicle door at the Metropole Hotel and hauled his opponent out before organisers of the tournament intervened. He said he was proud of what he did.

It is believed gardai have not yet received any complaint.

ICU chairman Jonathan O'Connor said they were waiting for a report from the controller of the event. It is expected the issue will be discussed at an ICU committee meeting tonight.

Mr Mirza, a father of two, said he wanted to win the tournament, where €400 was on offer.

"My opponent, after each move, he went out (to the toilet). He went in and out 20 times. We had made 24 moves.

"After the second or third move I knew he was checking (on the computer)."

Mr Mirza said he followed and looked inside a toilet cubicle.

"He was on an Android tablet and was putting the moves into it. I wanted to jump inside and get his Android, but I couldn't reach. I couldn't go over the (top). I went straight to the controller, Gerry Graham, and told him to follow me. I shouted and disturbed other players from their games because I was mad.

"Of course I was mad, so I smashed in the door. The guy was sitting, but not using the toilet. I pulled him out."

Mr Mirza, who runs St Michael's Chess Club in Limerick, admitted to being held back by one of the organisers. "He said 'relax and calm down'. His coaches called the guards. One of his coaches wanted to fight with me," Mr Mirza said. "One of the guards interviewed me and one interviewed that person.

"I was playing against the machine (the Android tablet). He was expelled -- disqualified. I wasn't allowed to play the last game either.

"I am proud for what I did. I don't regret anything," he said.

Mr Graham -- the Cork tournament arbiter -- informed Mr Mirza via email that he had been expelled.

"As I witnessed you assaulting another player, a junior player, only 16, I would cite that you certainly took an action that will bring the game of chess into disrepute," the email said.

As a result of Sunday's incident, Mr Mirza is no longer allowed to teach chess as part of after-hours classes at two primary schools in Limerick.

Mr Mirza led the Irish delegation to November's world youth chess championships in Slovenia. He previously played professional soccer in his native Romania for Dinamo Bucharest and Otelul Galati.

The principal of the boy's secondary school was said to be not talking on the issue.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 17433.html

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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by John Foley » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:02 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote: If you want to avoid accusations, you stay at or near the board for the whole duration of the game.
Most people do not have a constitution as firm as yours apparently. We cannot avoid the potential for accusations. The worry in the era of the portable chess engine is that someone is going to peer over the top of the cubicle, or from below, or even break down the door. Reading the Times chess column on the khazi will never be a pleasant experience again.

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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:06 pm

John Foley wrote: Reading the Times chess column on the khazi will never be a pleasant experience again.
That, objectively, could have been cheating as it may contain material relevant to a game in progress.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:07 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Foley wrote: Reading the Times chess column on the khazi will never be a pleasant experience again.
That, objectively, could have been cheating as it may contain material relevant to a game in progress.
I suspect John was being just a touch sarcastic there. What next? Avoid looking at the game next to yours because they are playing the same moves?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:10 pm

The real point, surely, is that this projects a very negative image of chess. What parent is going to want their child to play chess when this sort of thing makes headlines? You either lose to children (or adults) that cheat, or you have people bashing in toilet doors. What reassurances can the game's governing bodies and ordinary players provide?

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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by IanDavis » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:12 pm


John Foley
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Re: Chess row in Cork

Post by John Foley » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:23 pm

"To play a corker" definition: to play a move based upon a chess device viewed in a toilet. See also "A corking move."


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