Master Game on YouTube.

[Dave Ewart]

And I really should add that Jeremy James is a fantastic presenter. Understated, true, but very courteous, clear and professional. Did he ever do anything else??

[PeterTurland]

An English philosopher I really like was called Jeremy Bentham.

In the 17th century he came up with utilitarianism, this can be reliably translated as, the maximum good for the maximum number of people.

I can not think of a good reason why this is not the function of government, or why a BBC DVD should be sold at nothing like the cost of production of said media, but to arrive at the conclusion that our culture is run by the equivalent of the mafia.

[PeterFarr]

An English philosopher I really like was called Jeremy Bentham.

In the 17th century he came up with utilitarianism, this can be reliably translated as, the maximum good for the maximum number of people.

I can not think of a good reason why this is not the function of government, or why a BBC DVD should be sold at nothing like the cost of production of said media, but to arrive at the conclusion that our culture is run by the equivalent of the mafia.

It's possible that the DVD is actually sold below the cost of production. You can't just count the materials and pressing for a single copy; you have to add in salary costs, packaging, design etc., and no doubt various other one-off set-up costs, all for something that will only sell a few copies. That is why DVDs with much larger runs tend to cost less per unit than minority specialist ones.

Also, equating the BBC with the Mafia is a little unfair. So far as I know, the BBC's record on extortion and murder, drugs smuggling etc. is reasonably clean.

[PeterTurland]

It sounds like to me, that you think culture is only about taking as much as possible whilst giving as little as possible. Just check out the price of buying 10 unwritten DVDs at your local Tesco's and the cost of postage, you must think me colossally stupid.

[PeterFarr]

It sounds like to me, that you think culture is only about taking as much as possible whilst giving as little as possible. Just check out the price of buying 10 unwritten DVDs at your local Tesco's and the cost of postage, you must think me colossally stupid.

We are not talking about 10 unwritten DVDs though are we? Somebody has to put an old TV series on to a DVD, index it, package it, do sound quality etc., and these people will need to be paid. It doesn't happen by magic. Not my field, I don't know the process, but its not necessarily trivial and as the market will be very small, the cost is spread over a limited number if copies.

Also why do you say that I think culture is only about taking as much as possible whilst giving as little as possible. How can you possibly think that from a post about the production costs of a DVD? I haven't said anything at all about culture, I'm just suggesting that people doing work need to be paid.

[PeterTurland]

We are not talking about 10 unwritten DVDs though are we? Somebody has to put an old TV series on to a DVD, index it, package it, do sound quality etc., and these people will need to be paid. It doesn't happen by magic. Not my field, I don't know the process, but its not necessarily trivial and as the market will be very small, the cost is spread over a limited number if copies.

Also why do you say that I think culture is only about taking as much as possible whilst giving as little as possible. How can you possibly think that from a post about the production costs of a DVD? I haven't said anything at all about culture, I'm just suggesting that people doing work need to be paid.

Please define the term 'work', I think it will help the debate proceed, no end.

[PeterFarr]

In this case I mean people employed by the BBC to do the tasks I've (badly) outlined. So transferring a Tv programme to a DVD would constitute work. I'm guessing that whoever does this had not volunteered their services for free. It's a pity perhaps, but then they may have families to feed, for which having money is extremely helpful.

[PeterTurland]

As per usual with exercises in word definitions, context plays a huge role.

Referring back to Jeremy Bentham's definition of the function of government being, 'the maximum amount of good for the maximum number of people', I would define the term 'work' to be, the expenditure of energy, to the benefit of others, that cannot be achieved by machinery and automation.

To give a clue as to what is really occurring in terms of economics is, to understand what an 'acre' actually is:- An acre is based on what one man with a horse and plough, can plough in a day, can you imagine, how this definition changed, once tractors came on the scene? Sshh it is the guilty secret of economics.

Another question, in terms of the 'Master game videos', who actually owns these videos?

[PeterFarr]

Hi Peter,

An acre is still the same, isn't that a trick question? Also with Adam Smith and his pin factory on every £20 note, I wouldn't say that tractors / mechanisation are a secret of economics.

Anyway, I fear this is all "not chess" by a distance, so it might be testing people's patience to continue that discussion here. Just to say thanks for the mentions of Jeremy Bentham; I had vague recollections of him from doing some philosophy many years ago, and you've prompted me to look him up again; a remarkable man, very ahead of his time it seems.


Back to chess: a couple of very interesting articles about The Master Game series from John Saunders here:

http://www.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211 ... 30713.aspx

[Carl Hibbard]

I purchased both DVD from Amazon mainly due to fond memories of the original so lets see as they are on their way.

[PeterTurland]

Hi Peter,

An acre is still the same, isn't that a trick question? Also with Adam Smith and his pin factory on every £20 note, I wouldn't say that tractors / mechanisation are a secret of economics.

Anyway, I fear this is all "not chess" by a distance, so it might be testing people's patience to continue that discussion here. Just to say thanks for the mentions of Jeremy Bentham; I had vague recollections of him from doing some philosophy many years ago, and you've prompted me to look him up again; a remarkable man, very ahead of his time it seems.

So you think the science of economics has not advanced beyond 1790 when Adam Smith died, what would he have thought of me delivering a trailer load of wheelie bins, with my truck, to Falkirk (the town he grew up in) a good few years ago?

It seems to me, you think, all the automation and computers, does not create unemployment and we should all still be working a 40 hour week and more, because of his justification for economic selfishness?

Of course, if you think my definition of 'work' is not 'the expenditure of energy to the benefit of others, that can't be achieved by automation and machinery, you will think I'm talking rubbish.

[Geoff Chandler]

£45!! that is more than I paid for my telly and DVD player combined.

£45!! The nerve of these people. Are any of the players getting a cut? No of course not.
If they were tin pot musicians, poets or comedians then they would get a slice.
Once again Chess and in particuliar the games best players are being fleeced.

In the past I've knocked back every offer of a copied chess DVD.
Not because of the Corinthian spirit, I simply think they are all crap.

But today I phoned in my order to Mickey the Rat and next month at the
Glasgow Barras I'll be paying £10 for two copies fo the complete set.

One for me and one for the lad whose set got lost in the post....
....Nah....I'll buy one set, watch a bit of it and then give them to lad.
I'll spend the saved £5.00 on a genuine copy of this season's Leyton Orient top.
(Mickey's wife, Sally the Shark, sews the badges on by hand.)

£45!! they can whistle up their jacksy for that.
I only want the set for nostalgic reasons, but I am more nostalgically attached to my £45.00.

A guitar and a genuine Staunton Set and that is it. Nothing else I won cost more than £45.00.
Even the wife's engagement & wedding ring (ordered from a catelogue) only cost £40.00. (that is true by the way.)

Everything else is second hand. I love 2nd hand stuff.
The Wife was married before...the kids are adopted...

[Dave Ewart]

I really shouldn't have mentioned the cost, should I chaps? *rolls-eyes*

[Stewart Reuben]

I ordered my copies through Chess & Bridge. It was cheaper and, in Torquay, quicker.

[PeterFarr]

you will think I'm talking rubbish.

Correct. Though please stop telling me I hold views that I actually don't. I am not a rabid free marketeer, for example.

I really shouldn't have mentioned the cost, should I chaps? *rolls-eyes*