Tromso World Cup 2013

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:47 pm

At the bottom of this report:

http://www.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211 ... 50813.aspx

An incident with some confusion from the 3-fold repetition claim procedure.

EDIT: Leko and Shirov both out.

Angus French
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Angus French » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:53 pm

Ian Kingston wrote:Shirov about to be KO-ed. Superb game by the teenager.
That's Wei Yi (or should it be Yi Wei?), aged 14 and from China. Wei's current rating is 2551 but Wang Hao, Wei's compatriot, reckons he is 2700-strength (this was reported by Lawrence Trent on today's live video coverage).

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:58 pm

Oh joy, there are Elo-vampires in that rating range as well.

Ian Kingston
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Ian Kingston » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:54 pm

Angus French wrote:
Ian Kingston wrote:Shirov about to be KO-ed. Superb game by the teenager.
That's Wei Yi (or should it be Yi Wei?), aged 14 and from China. Wei's current rating is 2551 but Wang Hao, Wei's compatriot, reckons he is 2700-strength (this was reported by Lawrence Trent on today's live video coverage).
I followed the game on and off all afternoon. The way that Wei kept control of the position was hugely impressive.



I've finally had a chance to check the database to see whether or not the bishop sacrifice was new in this position. It's not - Bologan played it against Shirov in 2005 (I don't know if the line has been played this year - I don't follow Sicilian theory). On that occasion Shirov played 14...Be7 and won, but not without getting into some fairly serious trouble (says an engine). So he varied, presumably to avoid a suspected improvement, and was simply outplayed.

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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:30 pm

Ian Kingston wrote: I've finally had a chance to check the database to see whether or not the bishop sacrifice was new in this position. It's not - Bologan played it against Shirov in 2005 (I don't know if the line has been played this year - I don't follow Sicilian theory).
The nearest recent example may be the one below, featuring a sacrifice on b5 and a similar ending with the a,b and c pawns. In the World Cup game, Shirov had the position at move 11 as White against Van Wely in 1995, but chose to play 0-0 and a totally different treatment. The .. h5 idea has become popular, in the Hedgehog as well, but it can be difficult to even consider it as a candidate move.


Mick Norris
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:13 pm

Playoffs underway

Kramnik already drawn with black in game 1

Mickey is white
Any postings on here represent my personal views

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:01 pm

Looking drawish for Mickey (though I hope he wins!). Computer engines pointing out some subtle ways for White to have gained an advantage earlier, such as 27.Bd4 (attacking the queen) before playing the other bishop back to e4. OK, the stuff about a draw was after 40.Nb6. Not sure what Black is playing at with 40...Bd1.

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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:13 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Looking drawish for Mickey (though I hope he wins!). Computer engines pointing out some subtle ways for White to have gained an advantage earlier, such as 27.Bd4 (attacking the queen) before playing the other bishop back to e4. OK, the stuff about a draw was after 40.Nb6. Not sure what Black is playing at with 40...Bd1.
It felt like he outplayed his opponent without being able to win. Incredible turnaround in Fressinet-Malakov after 59 Kb3? Rc3+ 60 Kb4??

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:34 pm

Not looking good in the rook endgame...

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:36 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Not looking good in the rook endgame...
You wonder who or what to trust in such positions. The on-line Houdini seemed confident in Black's drawing chances even after Lawrence Trent wasn't. Looking at the engine's lines, you get non-obvious differences that for instance .. Rb6 had to be preferred to .. Rc6. Against that, a computer engine, particularly one giving instant commentary, is vulnerable to horizon effects if it doesn't evaluate the positions at the end of its lines correctly.

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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by LawrenceCooper » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:47 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Not looking good in the rook endgame...
You wonder who or what to trust in such positions. The on-line Houdini seemed confident in Black's drawing chances even after Lawrence Trent wasn't. Looking at the engine's lines, you get non-obvious differences that for instance .. Rb6 had to be preferred to .. Rc6. Against that, a computer engine, particularly one giving instant commentary, is vulnerable to horizon effects if it doesn't evaluate the positions at the end of its lines correctly.
The commentator (and viewer) will probably see how passive the position is and hold out little hope, whilst the computer will be based on pure calculation.

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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Greg Breed » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:27 pm

I've just been watching the live stream. It's awesome! So tense with the video coverage too. I love it!
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Matt Fletcher
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Matt Fletcher » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:01 am

I've been following the video coverage too, it's excellent.

But the main site has made me realise that I don't really like the way the computer evaluation is shown in the bar charts, mainly because big +/- evaluations swamp everything and mean that you can't easily work out the flow of the game up to that point.

I've come up with a possible alternative which allows you to see everything on the same scale - I've attached an attempt at a summary of the computer evaluations for the round 2 games. On the longplay games, you can see the craziness of the Kamsky - Shimanov game 2, as well as the missed opportunity for Leitao against Morozevich in game 1 (the single red spike) and the massive Ortiz Suarez blunder in game 1 (deep green goes to deep red), alongside some very sedate draws.

Would appreciate any comments / suggestions on the summary.
Attachments
world cup round 2 v2.png
world cup round 2 v2.png (266.67 KiB) Viewed 871 times

Matthew Turner
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Matthew Turner » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:08 pm

No British players left, so who are people supporting now?
I am watching Hammer - I'd like to see the local boy do well and Kamsky seems to generate very interesting games.
I'd also like to see Svidler and Giri go well

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Tromso World Cup 2013

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:19 pm

I'd be happy if any of the big names do well: Radjabov, Ivanchuk, Svidler, Gelfand, Nakamura, Karjakin, Grischuk, Kramnik, Caruana, or Aronian. Though I've named 10 of the 16 left in the event, so I'm sure one of them will do well! Are Ivanchuk and Radjabov the only ones left in the bottom half of the draw? I'm not sure if the list above shows that or not.

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