Vaping

[Jon Mahony]

Potentially one of the greatest individual and public health advances in decades and people want to ban them because they "look like cigarettes". (that's the point!) Still, if people lack the capacity for critical thought....

I couldn’t agree more. As a smoker who has recently gone onto Vaping (my E-Cig is one of the pipe designs and looks very much like a silver fountain pen) I am already noticing the benefits (no constantly having to clear throat and I can run for a bus without having to struggle to breath, once on it and sat down).

The E-Cigs that actually look like a normal cigarette are rubbish anyway. I spent a fortune buying a starter kit online a couple of years ago - they take about 3 hours to charge up, and die in 60 seconds, totally impractical to use without a constant access to mains supply. Also because they work with cartdridges which use wadding, you get very little Vape from them. Most Vapers, have wised up to this now and use the far superior re-fillable pipes.

IMO they are 100 times less offensive than an actual cigarette - they are more or less odourless (some of the flavoured E-liquids give a bit of an air-freshener type smell, but it is gone within seconds of inhaling, and doesn’t stay on the clothes or the breath)

I was always a considerate smoker, and at chess Congresses I would always hold my cigarette away from any none smokers when having one outside, and afterwards stub out my butt and put it in the ashtray or bin. But as Joey mentions, you can’t help dragging the residual smoke back with you to the board, on your clothes and breath - this no doubt puts off none-smoking opponents.

I really think people need to stop winging about E-Cigarettes considering what the alternative is.

Obviously, just out of common sense, you would never Vape while sat at the board (I wouldn’t wish to anyway, part of my ritual during OTB play was to get out of the opening, then pop out for a ciggy and mull over the ensuing middle game in my head - I still do this with my E-Cig) But I certainly see no problem with going outside with it, or even having a designated corner of the tournament hall / analysis room for Vaping.

Basically if you have a problem with Vaping, you also have a problem with a kettle coming to the boil in the corner of a room, it’s much the same thing

Re: Setting a bad example to kids - the latest trend among them seems to be Vaping! Practically every school kid you see, while waiting for the bus to work, seems to pull an E-cig out of his/her coat pocket.

While it is daft going right onto E-cigs, it beats the traditional ciggy behind the bike shed, becoming addicted and carrying on the habit for years into adult life, as I did. I suspect if you have never smoked before, you can very easily give up Vaping.

[Stewart Reuben]

Jon Mahony > I really think people need to stop winging about E-Cigarettes considering what the alternative is. <
THREE alternatives come to mind immediately: smoking; don't smoke; give up chess.

>Re: Setting a bad example to kids - the latest trend among them seems to be Vaping! Practically every school kid you see, while waiting for the bus to work, seems to pull an E-cig out of his/her coat pocket.<
So you are agreeing, adults are setting a bad example. We don't know the vaping the long term effects nor the effect on youngsters. I am sure nicotine must be bad for me due to my heart condition and that is what makes cigarette smoking addictive. I have no idea whether it is worse than the pollution exposed to by living in London.

> I suspect if you have never smoked before, you can very easily give up Vaping.<
Err, or never start vaping?

You analogy with a kettle coming to boil puts vaping in a bad light. The vapour discharged is not hot and does not result in condensation.

[Brendan O'Gorman]

What business is it of chess organisers to ban players from engaging in lawful activities that don't harm or disturb other players? As to bad examples or health worries, shouldn't we be more concerned about the consumption of sugared drinks (not that I'm advocating they be banned)? One of the great attractions of living in this country is (was?) the customary tolerance of other people's beliefs or practices provided they didn't harm others.

[Joey Stewart]

If people were opening sugared drinks and spraying them on their opponents then I think the opposition would be equally as strong.

I would have no problem with people using vapors, just as long as there was a clear forfeit for if they decided to sit at the board and blow it all over me (and not just "bad sportsmanship" but something really explicit like the mobile phone rule). Most people, I accept, would not do this but there are those that would and they need a tangible threat to keep them in line.

[Brendan O'Gorman]

Surely, one would just summon the arbiter and complain.

[Joey Stewart]

Not good enough, not good enough by a LONG way!
Arbiters are not always available in chess games, and when they are will often be reluctant to make a harsh judgement (after all, they don't know which side of the story is true, so will want to remain relatively impartial). There needs to be a nice fixed penalty, such as with the phone, to remove any temptation from unscrupulous individuals, as well as save the arbiters time (imagine how often they would have had to fanny around dealing with mobile noises if that rule was not in place).

[E Michael White]

Potentially one of the greatest individual and public health advances in decades.....

The greatest advance may have been the work of the med statisticians who showed the link between some cancers and smoking.

E:cigarettes may be usable to receive coded messages from an offsite source with Fritz.

[Ian Thompson]

What business is it of chess organisers to ban players from engaging in lawful activities that don't harm or disturb other players?

Nothing, but a good organiser would make an advance judgement on whether something was likely to be a disturbance or not, and then prohibit those things that were. It seems pretty clear to me that vapour coming out of the "cigarette", or the person's mouth/nose, is likely to be distracting, so banning it in advance is reasonable.

[PaulTalbot]

To say vaping is just like boiling a kettle is complete nonsense! A boiling kettle releases water vapour into the atmosphere. Vaping releases a multitude of chemicals including nicotine which is highly addictive.

To say that the vapour disappears after a few seconds, nonsense. It turns invisible but just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Of course it's there, for everyone else to breath in.

To say vaping is harmless, again, nonsense. They don't even know for sure, yet, that it is less harmful than smoking. As studies proceed there is more and more evidence showing that it is harmful.

https://theconversation.com/vapour-from ... %20attacks

Until we know more it should be treated the same way as cigarettes and banned in all chess rooms.

[Barry Sandercock]

Hear Hear !

[MartinCarpenter]

Think it'd be very surprising if it wasn't at least a bit less harmful than normal smoking. No tar etc.

Not a high barrier to clear that of course!

[PaulTalbot]

No tar but it could be harmful in other ways though. The fact is we simply don't know yet, and some effects may not be obvious for 20 years yet. People think that because these things consist of vegetable oils they are safe. They naively think that everything to do with vegetables is good for you. They're wrong. Some vegetables are highly poisonous and many contain toxins. The fact is that we DO NOT KNOW all the effects of e-cigs yet and whilst I have no problems whatsoever with someone vaping they should not be able to force other people to passively breath that vapour in.

[MikeTasker]

People think that because these things consist of vegetable oils they are safe.

This is incorrect,the main component of the liquid used (eliquid) is either Proplylene Glycol or Vegetable Glycol(+nicotine and flavouring) which are technically alcohols.Both have been used for a long time in items such as asthma and medicine inhalers.Oil in eliquid can cause lipoid pneumonia and is avoided .

No tar but it could be harmful in other ways though. The fact is we simply don't know yet, and some effects may not be obvious for 20 years yet.

There has been a lot of research done on the safety of e-cigarettes see
http://www.ecigalternative.com/ecigaret ... search.htm
and Burstyn 2014-Peering through the mist: systematic review of what the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tells us about health risks.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18.A recent review of current research.

From Burstyns conclusions.
'Current state of knowledge about chemistry of liquids and aerosols associated with electronic cigarettes indicates that there is no evidence that vaping produces inhalable exposures to contaminants of the aerosol that would warrant health concerns by the standards that are used to ensure safety of workplaces' and
'Exposures of bystanders are likely to be orders of magnitude less, and thus pose no apparent concern.'


I think the cheating possibility might be an issue though.Current devices can look like this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFNEkK2TWGI 1 minute in.

[Stewart Reuben]

Can anybody seriously doubt the following:
Vaping is harmful
Vaping is less harmful than smoking cigarettes
Vaping doesn't necessarily mean the person takes in more nicotine.
Living in any urban environment renders one liable to taking in undesirable material.

Nobody has seriously suggested lifting the ban on vaping in the chess playing area.

[MikeTasker]

I'd agree with those statements,but saying 'vaping is harmful' alone is not too helpful. It can be argued that just about anything can be harmful even playing chess!
I agree vaping should not be allowed in the playing area.