when should you resign a game?

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Stewart Reuben
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Re: when should you resign a game?

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:09 am

>in long play chess i dont know of any tourney if incrments are being used that is less than 30 seconds during the game. if you could point any out then i be grateful. Where there are events such as these played in a slow time limit not rapidplay. i know 90 +30 second incrment is the fastest a time limit can be for it to be fide rated.<

The rate of play in the Gibraltar Challengers and Amateur is all the moves in 110 minutes add on 10 seconds cumulatively from the first. This rate of play has been chosen because those games commence at 10am and the Masters, on the same boards, start at 3pm, with some players playing both morning and afternoon.The 10 seconds does not require keeping score throughout. but does away with the possible need to apply 10.2. Also there will be fewer arguments. Such games can be FIDE Rated, but not count for title norms.

The only rule regarding rating is that, provided at least one player in the tournament is rated 2200 or higher, all players must have at least 120 minutes for 60 moves.

90 minutes + 30 seconds is the minimum requirement for a title norm tournament and even that will be phased out from 1 July 2010. Much more common is 90/40. all in 30 add on 30seconds from the start.

One minute is better for wrinklies like me, especially those with 2 sets of glasses, but is no longer allowed for title norm events.

Stewart Reuben

Peter Rhodes
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Re: when should you resign a game?

Post by Peter Rhodes » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:32 am

I don't think that K+R+B v K+N+N can even be considered a "winning ending" under the current laws of chess! :?
I couldn't resist throwing that into Fritz, and was pretty suprised that the tablebases picked it up !

I hope it wasn't a lucky position - I did put the pieces in opposite corners of the board. It seems to involve narrowing down the squares of that the enemy King can move, and then creating a discovered check while forking one of the knights.

They say, if given enough time that a monkey could type the complete works of Shakespeare. Given enough moves, I don't think I would be able to win that game !!

In answer to the question
when should you resign a game?
I've been in those situations once or twice, and if it really is painfully obvious that the win is trivial - just take a long long break from the board. It's not so much fun for them to be staring at a lost position - even when it's your time ticking away.

That's not possible on ICC, and I used to get infuriated when an opponent would try to win a lost game on time, so I used to have a moretime macro hotkeyed to a button (you can add time to your opponents clock with moretime +n), and promote as many pawns as possible to queens - just to make the point that they would not beat me on time.
Chess Amateur.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: when should you resign a game?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:56 pm

This is as good a place as any to post the following horror:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d3 d6 6.0-0 Bg4 7.Nbd2 0-0 8.h3 Bh5 9.b4 Bb6 10.Bb3 d5 11.a4 a6 12.Ba3 Re8 13.a5 Ba7 14.Qc2 Qd7 15.Ba4 Rad8 16.b5 ab5 17.Bb5 Qe6 18.Ng5 Qc8 19.Qa4 Nd7 20.ed5 Ne7 21.a6 ba6 22.Ba6 Qa8 23.Be7 Re7 24.Bc4 h6 25.Nge4 Nb6 26.Qa7 Qa7 27.Ra7 (time for Black to resign about now?? You might think so, but.....)27...Nd5 28.Re1 Kh7 29.Bd5 Rd5 30.Re3 Bg6 31.c4 Rd8 32.g4 h5 33.Nb3 f6 34.Nbc5 hg4 35.hg4 Rd4 36.Nb3 Rd8 37.Nec5 f5 38.gf5 Bf5 39.f4 Kg6 40.fe5 Kg5 41.Kf2 Rf8 42.Kg3 Rh8 43.Ne4+ Kh5 44.Kf4 Be6 45.Ra1 g5+ 46.Kg3 Kg6 47.Kg2 Reh7 48.Ng3 Rh2+ 49.Kf3 Rf8+ 50.Ke4 Rf4#

Pretty gruesome, eh?? And yes, I was White!! :oops: :shock: :roll: :cry:

Ran short of time near the end but that is no excuse really - what a way to start the new season :(
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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Gavin Strachan
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Re: when should you resign a game?

Post by Gavin Strachan » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:52 pm

Some people can't identify when a position is lost because they are not skilled enough. I'm sure a lot of players have been in a position where they have lost a piece, even a queen and still rustled up a win. I personally tend to resign when there is no chance of any real counterplay from what I have left, no swindles, etc. Like Geoff states, if someone wants to play on the so be it no matter what level you are.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: when should you resign a game?

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:33 pm

A good comment I learnt from Tony Miles.
I can't understand why he resigned now. It' the best position he has had all game.
Stewart Reuben

James Toon
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Re: when should you resign a game?

Post by James Toon » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:43 am

James Courtenay wrote:
Ian Kingston wrote:Article 8.4:
If a player has less than five minutes left on his clock at some stage in a period and does not have additional
time of 30 seconds or more added with each move, then for the remainder of the period he is not obliged to
meet the requirements of Article 8.1. Immediately after one flag has fallen the player must update his
scoresheet completely before moving a piece on the chessboard.
So with an increment of less than 30 seconds you don't have to write the moves down if you have less than five minutes remaining.

It's just possible that the increment could see a player's time oscillating above and below the five-minute mark, creating situations in which the player sometimes has to write down the moves and sometimes not. In practice, i think most players would just keep score anyway.
Thanks Ian, I thought that was the case.

One minor point - it doesn't matter if you go above and below the 5 minute mark... As it says if at some stage during the period... therefore you can stop keeping score of the game until the end of that time period.

James.
I agree, but is there any official guidance on what should happen if the increment is less than 30 seconds and the remaining game keeps going above and below 5 minutes?

It matters to me because I'm captaining a team in a match on Friday where the rate of play is all moves in 90 minutes plus 15 seconds a move.

James

LozCooper

Re: when should you resign a game?

Post by LozCooper » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:02 am

James Toon wrote:The best advice I saw is that you shouldn't resign unless your position is hopeless. That tends to mean material down, no counterplay, and no chance of simplifying into a drawn ending. I would not insult my opponent by playing on in these circumstances.

However, depending on the grade of my opponent, I probably would play on in an ending which was difficult to win, such as K+B+N v K, or K+N+N v K+P, or K+R+B v K+N+N. This has never happened to me, in about 500 games going back 20 years.
I lost the unusual ending of bishop & knight against rook & knight without pawns to Nick Pert once. I certainly think he was entitled to play it out and although I blundered in a difficult position it was interesting to be in unknown territory and have to figure out the plans etc I suspect it is more drawn than won but in practical play it's easy to go wrong.

Sean Hewitt

Re: when should you resign a game?

Post by Sean Hewitt » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:29 am

James Toon wrote:
I agree, but is there any official guidance on what should happen if the increment is less than 30 seconds and the remaining game keeps going above and below 5 minutes?

It matters to me because I'm captaining a team in a match on Friday where the rate of play is all moves in 90 minutes plus 15 seconds a move.

James
James,

Once a players time has gone below 5 minutes the laws no longer require him to keep score, even if the increment subsequently takes his time back above 5 minutes.

EDIT : To highlight that the increment is less than 30 seconds (Alex!)
Last edited by Sean Hewitt on Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: when should you resign a game?

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:33 am

Sean Hewitt wrote: Once a players time has gone below 5 minutes the laws no longer require him to keep score, even if the increment subsequently takes his tim back above 5 minutes.
Unless the increment is 30 seconds or more, right? In which case, you're never allowed to stop writing. (I know that doesn't apply in this case.)

Edit: Oh, didn't read enough preceding comments...

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David Shepherd
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Re: when should you resign a game?

Post by David Shepherd » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:00 pm

What I really don't like is where people insist on playing on in a dead drawn position with no realistic prospect of either side winning - at least if you are winning you can beat them as quickly as you can. On the internet I normally just resign such games and play someone else.

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