Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

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Nick Burrows
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Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by Nick Burrows » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:36 pm

For anyone that didn't see it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puRR65UUKAs

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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by David Robertson » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:51 pm

Total twa*

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Joshua Gibbs
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by Joshua Gibbs » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:36 pm

i think calling him a total tw@t is a it harsh... it worked for Kasparov against Polgar... it does make Nakamura look bad. Nick thanks for sharing.
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by MJMcCready » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:40 pm

I think the problem was that he suffered from the problem of seeing that it was a blunder right at the death. In the documentary 'the love of wood' Donner speaks about this at the very beginning, noting that it is strange how you can spend so many minutes looking at move but it is only until you touch the piece that you see it is a blunder. I guess for that final second your concentration levels increase enough to see it. I think its a bit harsh to criticize Naka, there's a lot at stake and his attempt to adjust the piece was a knee-jerk reaction. He shouldn't have done it but they are under a lot of pressure and there is a lot at stake. After all, whoever wins the candidates can look forward to being soundly thrashed by Carlsen later in the year, and to some degree, ridiculed in the press for months on end.

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Joshua Gibbs
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by Joshua Gibbs » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:49 pm

i defo agree with MJMcCready - it must be amazingly hard to deal with at that level.
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:56 pm

MJMcCready wrote:I think its a bit harsh to criticize Naka, there's a lot at stake and his attempt to adjust the piece was a knee-jerk reaction.
You just wonder what could have happened if the incident had taken place in an Open tournament without a camera recording all the activity. The video shows him quite deliberately grasping the piece and then realising that his proposed move is a game losing blunder. An immediate "resigns" may have been a more face saving gesture, although you should play Kf8 and resign after Kf6 so that those following the game understand the resignation.

(edit) The current ECU President and possible future candidate for FIDE President got away with it in a vaguely similar incident. His relatively young and less experienced opponent didn't have the confidence to react as Aronian did (/edit)

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Joshua Gibbs
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by Joshua Gibbs » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:24 am

He also has an entire "controversies" section on his Wikipedia page.
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by MJMcCready » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:34 am

Joshua Gibbs wrote:He also has an entire "controversies" section on his Wikipedia page.
Not anymore he doesn't.

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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:06 am

When did a top-class player last do anything quite so outrageous at the board?
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by Michael Mkpadi » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:11 am

Joshua Gibbs wrote:i defo agree with MJMcCready - it must be amazingly hard to deal with at that level.
Yes I agree too with Joshua Gibbs and MJUMcCready that these players have a lot to handle at this level. That is why they are rewarded fantastically and given such respect. However that respect has to be earned. Think of the junior players who watched that and will think that it is ok to try and hustle your way out of a touch move ruling.

Just because Kasparov did this against Polgar, there is an entire thread devoted to the mysterious disappearance of the footage of that incident. http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6277, doesn't make it right or understandable. Kasparov claims he never let go of the piece so it is slightly different mechanically but sporting wise the same, about breaking rules and not having the honesty to own up because of what was at stake.

and who could forget the classic J'adoube try by Carlsen against Kosteniuk at the World Blitz Championships, at least he had the "decency" not to pretend to be in the right like Kasparov and Nakamura, and Carlsen "resigns by walking away" as Kosteniuk puts it eloquently. This time the video footage is available, that's because Kosteniuk sells it to anyone who will buy. Here is her free youtube teaser of the incident. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeyXKTVYenA

Cheating in chess is about not having the honesty to play by the rules or own up when you've broken them. Kasparov and Nakamura are both cheats.
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by Ray Sayers » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:48 am

I also understand why he tried to take the move back - the awful realisation of what he was moving, coupled with the immense pressure these guys are under probably scrambled his brain for a few seconds. If he had thought about it in the cold light of day he wouldn't have tried it; Aronian is in front of him; an Arbiter is next to him; at least 2 tv cameras are trained on him; commentators are following the game live and finally there is the audience! No way are you going to get away with that!
The big issue I have is with his behaviour afterwards. What he should have done was at the end of the game was shake hands, say 'sorry mate, I dunno what I was thinking' and move on. But his mindset was that it was Levon's fault somehow! I am reminded of burglars who blame the householder for catching them in the act and being put behind bars. It was nothing to do with the fact that they were committing a crime in the first place!
So what does Nakamura do now? Never shake Levon's hand again? Never attend a press conference again? That is ridiculous. And he will be asked about it in the future.
I am really surprised that he didn't put out some kind of apology yesterday to clear the air. Now he is going to be playing under the added burden of knowing that many people will consider him a cheat. Which is a real shame because at his best he is a really great player to watch.
Last edited by Ray Sayers on Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:44 am

Michael Mkpadi wrote:and who could forget the classic J'adoube try by Carlsen against Kosteniuk at the World Blitz Championships
I had, funnily enough. That really is amazing, though for my money Nakamura's "J'adoube" is even worse. But really, really unimpressive from Carlsen.

Yes, of course players had do things in the heat of the moment, as Korchnoi did here:
Now Korchnoi picked up his queen and played it to d5 with check (it's the only move to keep a spark of life) and let go of it; then he did not like it there and picked it up again, put it back to d8 and then swiftly moved it to b6 where it would allow three mates on the move! Rukavina very quickly restarted Korchnoi's clock and started to remonstrate; the watching deputy chief arbiter, Walter Kuhnle-Woods, stepped forward intending to award the game to Rukavina. Korchnoi saved any further fuss by promptly resigning. No one attributed anything to the incident other than that Korchnoi was completely confused. He spent the next few hours walking the streets of Leningrad working off his annoyance with himself.
So there's the "confused" defence, and people are entitled to make it, but on the other side of the balance, pretending that you were adjusting is so out of line, so pathetic, and the consequences if he'd got away with it so enormous, it's on a different level altogether.

And this is just right, I think.
Ray Sayers wrote:What he should have done was at the end of the game shake hands, say 'sorry mate, I dunno what I was thinking' and move on....I am really surprised that he didn't put out some kind of apology yesterday to clear the air...
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:17 am

Ray Sayers wrote:So what does Nakamura do now? Never shake Levon's hand again?
They play again in the final round when the tension may well be very high anyway, so he has a long time to think about it
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:23 am

JustinHorton wrote:When did a top-class player last do anything quite so outrageous at the board?
But he's an American, and they don't have the same rules as the rest of us :roll:

interview during World Cup from about 1:25
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Re: Nakamura "J'adoube" Controversy

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:26 am

Mick Norris wrote: But he's an American, and they don't have the same rules as the rest of us :roll:

interview during World Cup from about 1:25
They don't do touch move there, either?

I'm tired of all the talk of "the pressure at this level". The effect of the pressure is that players revert to type. Those predisposed to cheating, cheat.

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