"SavetheUKCC" petition

National developments, strategies and ideas.
Alan Kennedy
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Alan Kennedy » Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:04 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Alan Kennedy wrote:[One of the comments I often make in this sort of circumstance is "do you realise you could earn more driving a bus". Alternatively I have no doubt a man of Mr Basman's consider intellect could command a salary of say £50000 per annum
Doing what?
Sorry - I said have said "could have commanded" - he probably could not now.

Alan Kennedy
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Alan Kennedy » Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:09 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
I would also like to thank and praise Alan for his contributions - which have been the very opposite of utter cobblers.

Are you familiar with the Kids Company story Alan? There’s much about the UKCC / Basman business that reminds me of that fiasco.
thanks and no - the is a limit to just now much even I can take!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:11 pm

Alan Kennedy wrote: If Mr Basman does not register for VAT I do not think the security can be charged as the rules only apply to taxable persons. He still has a liability to register until he convinces HMRC he is eligible for deregistration.
Much earlier in the thread, it was noted that Mike Basman had a VAT registration. Is that something HMRC would have set up as part of their pursuit of him?

Alan Kennedy
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Alan Kennedy » Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:43 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alan Kennedy wrote: If Mr Basman does not register for VAT I do not think the security can be charged as the rules only apply to taxable persons. He still has a liability to register until he convinces HMRC he is eligible for deregistration.
Much earlier in the thread, it was noted that Mike Basman had a VAT registration. Is that something HMRC would have set up as part of their pursuit of him?
Whether he had vat registration or not I doubt we know. Usually the onus is on the tax payer to register for VAT. the issue is largely irrelevant - if you do not pay your vat hmrc have a habbit of eventually putting you out of business.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:00 pm

Alan Kennedy wrote: Whether he had vat registration or not I doubt we know.
A search for basman vat comes up with
http://vat-search.co.uk/RNjS_Michael+Basman
and
http://www.vat-lookup.co.uk/verify/vat_ ... AEL+BASMAN

The name and address on the second search have been previously identified as being the bankruptcy trustee.

Alan Kennedy
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Alan Kennedy » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:44 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alan Kennedy wrote: Whether he had vat registration or not I doubt we know.
A search for basman vat comes up with
http://vat-search.co.uk/RNjS_Michael+Basman
and
http://www.vat-lookup.co.uk/verify/vat_ ... AEL+BASMAN

The name and address on the second search have been previously identified as being the bankruptcy trustee.


He may have degistered but assuming not HMRC have the right to look for a security deposit. Much more of this tax advice Roger and you will be admitted to the accountants nexus!

David Blower
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by David Blower » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:42 pm

I haven't commented on this thread for some time. I think it is a shame that the future of the UK Chess Challenge is in doubt, regardless of the reasons for it. I hope that some sort of chess competition for children like it continues if the UK Chess Challenge does not.

Many people on here probably follow football. The basic rules of promotion and relegation within the football pyramid are well established, and teams earn their places in the football pyramid over a period of time. Occassionally though football clubs do go bankrupt. I can think of a few football clubs this has indeed happened to:

Darlington
Aldershot
Accrington
Maidstone United
Chester City
Scarborough

to name a few of them.

However all of these places still have football clubs, as fans of the clubs set up reformed football clubs. Accrington Stanley are even in the Football League.

So what am I saying for the UK Chess Challenge? It really isn't the end of it, even if it is bankrupt. It would certainly be possible to reform the tournament and simply start it again, even if it was under a slightly different name.

Or is that just a little bit too simple?

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John Upham
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by John Upham » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:01 pm

Alan Kennedy wrote:
1 The venues

The main difficulty is that as a bankrupt he has to disclose his bankruptcy if he takes more than £500 of credit from anyone. I do not know the detail of how the school hire is organised but I remember my son playing in the gigafinal at a sports centre and I am guessing that cost more than £500 to hire. Therefore form is signed to the time Mr Basman hands over the cash he is being granted credit and needs to make the disclosure. Is a local council likely to agree a rental with an undischarged bankrupt? I do not think so!
Rivermead Leisure Centre charges £4,500 per weekend and then there is the cost of the extra table and chair hire.

The Northern final is cheaper and the Terafinal venue is gratis.
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Michael Farthing
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Michael Farthing » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:27 pm

David Blower wrote: So what am I saying for the UK Chess Challenge? It really isn't the end of it, even if it is bankrupt. It would certainly be possible to reform the tournament and simply start it again, even if it was under a slightly different name.

Or is that just a little bit too simple?
Well there's only one slight problem with it, sadly.
You have to find someone with the tenacity, determination, character, knowledge and readiness to work very hard in return for little but praise, abuse, threats of litigation and general criticism.

I really and very truly hope, David, that your vision triumphs over my cynicism.

Neill Cooper
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Neill Cooper » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:01 pm

UKCC was not the only junior chess is the UK!
For instance, today 148 juniors played at the Barnet Knights London Junior Chess Championship qualifier and another 316 at ECF secondary school rapidplay tournament at Eton College.
UKCC was great, but if it is no more then we should run other events instead. For instance each county could have an individual championships, where qualification was from within-school tournaments.

Alan Kennedy
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Alan Kennedy » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:12 pm

David Blower wrote:I think it is a shame that the future of the UK Chess Challenge is in doubt, regardless of the reasons for it. I hope that some sort of chess competition for children like it continues if the UK Chess Challenge does not.

-------

So what am I saying for the UK Chess Challenge? It really isn't the end of it, even if it is bankrupt. It would certainly be possible to reform the tournament and simply start it again, even if it was under a slightly different name.

Or is that just a little bit too simple?
No that is spot on and what everyone agrees! I just doubt it can be done by Mr Basman in isolation and finding the person to drive it forward is a real challenge as Michael Flatt rightly points out (at last Michael we agree on something!)

John Swain
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by John Swain » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:17 pm

Mike Basman has issued another statement, taking aim at several contributors to this thread:

http://delanceyukschoolschesschallenge. ... nForum.pdf

Alan Kennedy
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Alan Kennedy » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:24 pm

John Upham wrote: Rivermead Leisure Centre charges £4,500 per weekend and then there is the cost of the extra table and chair hire.

The Northern final is cheaper and the Terafinal venue is gratis.
thanks John - I hope that you are relaying my concerns to Mike Basman - if so please convey to him my concern to him for his wellbeing. I think we all agree that chess organisation is a thankless task and and also Mike has clearly made mistakes that does not make his achievements anything other than significant.

Edit I wrote the above before I had read Mike Basman's statement. As regards his point concerning unpaid labour to a certain extent I agree. My clients pay me money for doing their work on behalf the government. However if you do not want these responsibilities you do not have to go into business - no one forced Mike Basman to start the UKCC and so in that sense he is not a slave and could have ceased trading if he did not like the idea of collecting tax for free. As regards the cost of the accountancy services I have already explained the extra national insurance he has paid probably would have more than covered my firms fees. I fear that the whole situation will end unhappily and the legacy of the ukcc will be lost for ever. If that happens because of Mike's bitterness it will be very sad.
Last edited by Alan Kennedy on Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

David Blower
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by David Blower » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:43 pm

These statements that Mike Basman is making, are they actually helping save the UK Chess Challenge?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: "SavetheUKCC" petition

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:43 pm

John Swain wrote:Mike Basman has issued another statement, taking aim at several contributors to this thread:
VAT is a undoubtedly an annoying tax. It is however one of those aggravations, like ECF membership, enforced by "powers that be". If the UK Chess Challenge was a sufficiently worthy cause, it may well have been possible to canvass for a retired accountant, bookkeeper or tax expert to assist with the record keeping or the event structure. No such appeal was ever made.

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