ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
Thanks Ben - excellent report as always.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
This is alarming that a regular attendee at Council was clearly unaware of the character of the vote. It was very explicit in the documentation sent out that options 1 to 3 were not to be seen as alternatives but as separate votes in their own right.benedgell wrote:
The next vote was for which of the 3 options for voting reform to vote for. My votes were 2 for Option 1 (Somerset), 1 for Option 2 (Gold Members’ Rep), and 7 for Option 3 (Bournemouth, Southampton, Dorset). I also raised the point afterwards that if Options 1 or 2 were not there I would have cast Somerset and the Gold Members’ Reps votes for Option 3.
The intention of the votes were as follows:
Do you support option 1 in preference to the status quo
Do you support option 2 in preference to the status quo
Do you support option 3 in preference to the status quo.
With these questions it was perfectly proper, and indeed expected, that Council members could vote for ALL THREE options if they thought this appropriate.
There was no reason why the Somerset and Gold votes should not have been given to BOTH options 2 and 3.
The purpose of the votes was to establish which proposals, if later brought forward as constitutional amendments, would individually find favour.
The purpose was not to decide between the options by competition between them but rather to establish which option was most wanted, best achieved by everyone voting for ALL the options of which they approved.
This is precisely why there was no option for the status quo. If that's what someone wanted they needed to vote against all three options.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
I don't suppose this has changed as a result of the Finance Council meeting, but what is the definition of the unit on which pay to play applies? Congresses with multiple sections, where someone can play in more than one (British Championships, Gibraltar, London Chess Classic, for example), charge pay to play fees per section played in. The ECF web site says "The ECF will charge the event a Pay to Play fee of £7 for each adult congress participant (£5 for juniors) who is not an ECF member or who is an ECF member at Bronze level only." That suggests one payment should cover all events a person plays in within one congress. What's the official definition that determines this?benedgell wrote:The revised schedule of rates, simplified as much as possible, is as follows:
FIDE Standard Play Rated Events: Gold ECF membership or higher: FREE or Others: Pay to Play fee of £10 per person (adult or junior)
Other Congresses: Silver ECF members or higher: FREE or Others: Pay to Play fee of £7 per adult (£5 per junior)
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
Well, quite.Michael Farthing wrote:This is alarming that a regular attendee at Council was clearly unaware of the character of the vote. It was very explicit in the documentation sent out that options 1 to 3 were not to be seen as alternatives but as separate votes in their own right.benedgell wrote:
The next vote was for which of the 3 options for voting reform to vote for. My votes were 2 for Option 1 (Somerset), 1 for Option 2 (Gold Members’ Rep), and 7 for Option 3 (Bournemouth, Southampton, Dorset). I also raised the point afterwards that if Options 1 or 2 were not there I would have cast Somerset and the Gold Members’ Reps votes for Option 3.
The intention of the votes were as follows:
Do you support option 1 in preference to the status quo
Do you support option 2 in preference to the status quo
Do you support option 3 in preference to the status quo.
With these questions it was perfectly proper, and indeed expected, that Council members could vote for ALL THREE options if they thought this appropriate.
There was no reason why the Somerset and Gold votes should not have been given to BOTH options 2 and 3.
The purpose of the votes was to establish which proposals, if later brought forward as constitutional amendments, would individually find favour.
The purpose was not to decide between the options by competition between them but rather to establish which option was most wanted, best achieved by everyone voting for ALL the options of which they approved.
This is precisely why there was no option for the status quo. If that's what someone wanted they needed to vote against all three options.
And I wonder why Ben couldn't have said something later in the meeting, when watered-down alternatives to option 3 were discussed? If it was a choice of one of those or nothing, mightn't they have had some appeal?
I'm also surprised by what's written in the two paragraphs before the last in Ben's report.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
Yes, not casting the Somerset/ Gold Members' reps votes for option 3 as well as 1/ 2 was a mistake. I incorrectly interpreted the item and to any Somerset/ Gold Members who are disappointed I can only apologise. Its worth noting that my mistake ultimately had no effect on the outcome of the vote. Whether or not I had used the 3 votes for item 3 it still would have been a long way short of the required 75%. Also, after the results were announced I stated (based on the incorrect presumption that I could only vote for one of the choices) that were options 1 & 2 not there I would have cast the 3 votes for option 3 (as is noted in my report).
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
No, the difference was made by the use of 23 unmandated votes in the direction that they were used. This made the difference of suggesting that the achievement of voting reform was not possible rather than being quite likely. I've always admired the way that you have sought to honour your instructors' wishes: but here we see that where no opinion is expressed you do wield a disproportionate influence for a single individual.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
The above links don't workbenedgell wrote:
More information on this can be found here:
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... inal-1.pdf
and here:
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... -No.-2.pdf
Can you define 'next season' more precisely. Does it refer to games played in the next grading period (i.e. on or after July 1st 2017), or to games played in events which start on or after that date, or does it refer to games in the next Membership year, or something else?benedgell wrote: If I’ve made any mistakes with the summary above let me know, but the long and the short is that unless leagues want big bills at the end of next season they need to be very vigilant with ensuring that non- ECF members don’t play more than 3 games, or if they do that they become ECF members. This comes in for next season.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
The links are all sorted now.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
on the Rule about the 3 games next season, is it 3 games per person per league for free or just the 1st 3 games are free?
Also what happen if you play in a Rapidplay league?
Also what happen if you play in a Rapidplay league?
Any postings on here represent my personal views only and also Dyslexia as well
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
3 games free; 4th incurs a cost equivalent to bronze membership
Are there any rapidplay leagues?
Are there any rapidplay leagues?
Any postings on here represent my personal views
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
There are rapidplay club competitions.Mick Norris wrote:3 games free; 4th incurs a cost equivalent to bronze membership
Are there any rapidplay leagues?
You get 7 free games - there was a long angel-on-pinhead discussion about whether "under four games free" and "pay for over three games" meant the same thing. It was decided that they did not as 7 rapid games is 3 1/2 ordinary games and the judgement was that 7 rapid games were free.
Hey, John - were you asleep? [Though having said that I have to admit that I missed Malcolm's comments on English rapidplay championships completely].
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
I wanted to make sure, as someone was saying to me that if a player, played in other leagues, then which does the 3 games count as?
because our ecf rep was saying that it was just the 3 games in that league, and I told him, it was not true, as if they play in a other league in the season then the 3 games will count towards it.
because our ecf rep was saying that it was just the 3 games in that league, and I told him, it was not true, as if they play in a other league in the season then the 3 games will count towards it.
Any postings on here represent my personal views only and also Dyslexia as well
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
Both the Croydon league and the Surrey league have one. For matches in both, two games are played on each board with alternating colours.Mick Norris wrote:Are there any rapidplay leagues?
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
Not my understanding. 'Canny Player' can have three free games in the Ruritanian League and a further three games in the Zenda League. The Board decided it wasn't worth bothering to police this so admitted it up front.John Reyes wrote:I wanted to make sure, as someone was saying to me that if a player, played in other leagues, then which does the 3 games count as?
because our ecf rep was saying that it was just the 3 games in that league, and I told him, it was not true, as if they play in a other league in the season then the 3 games will count towards it.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting April 2017
So to take an unlikely but not entirely impossible scenario: If a player for (say) Bath plays 4 games in his club tournament, 4 games in the Somerset League and 4 games in the Bristol League, all without taking out membership, his club will be billed 3 x £15 = £45 (one bill of £15 direct from the ECF and two bills via the leagues). Is that right?