Grading of Junior Tournaments

General discussions about grading.
Alex Holowczak
Posts: 8015
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: Grading of Junior Tournaments

Post by Alex Holowczak » Mon May 29, 2017 4:54 pm

Neill Cooper wrote:Presumably at near year's Megafinals Alex H will have to charge an excess of about £10 for each entrant who is not an ECF member.
We'll see. The hope is that having played in the Megafinal, they will play in some of Warwickshire CA's other tournament next season, and thus already be members long before then. Otherwise, yes, I'll try to arrange with the UKCC that the information about becoming Silver members is available at the time they enter.

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: Grading of Junior Tournaments

Post by Roger Lancaster » Mon May 29, 2017 7:49 pm

I accept there will be some parents on benefits, or in low-paid work, for whom £15 may be a significant amount - although, for them, even the cost of travel to a megafinal will be a consideration. But, for most parents, £15 is not exactly prohibitive.

Gareth T Ellis
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Grading of Junior Tournaments

Post by Gareth T Ellis » Mon May 29, 2017 10:32 pm

Alex Holowczak » Mon May 29, 2017 4:54 pm

Neill Cooper wrote:
Presumably at near year's Megafinals Alex H will have to charge an excess of about £10 for each entrant who is not an ECF member.

We'll see. The hope is that having played in the Megafinal, they will play in some of Warwickshire CA's other tournament next season, and thus already be members long before then. Otherwise, yes, I'll try to arrange with the UKCC that the information about becoming Silver members is available at the time they enter.
Alex, you are running a qualifying stage of a UK event (not an ECF event), surely the entry fee and conditions are set by the tournament organisers and would be the same for all entrants.

As parents now have a choice to which Megafinal they enter their children, you could find numbers dropping next year if the current Free Silver Members don't want to join next year.

Gareth T Ellis
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Grading of Junior Tournaments

Post by Gareth T Ellis » Mon May 29, 2017 10:47 pm

Roger Lancaster » Mon May 29, 2017 1:15 pm

Gareth T Ellis wrote:
Roger Lancaster » Thu May 25, 2017 4:21 pm

it makes it more difficult for juniors to get graded in the first place if junior organisers run lots of events which are ungraded.


The important questions are:

When is a grade of any importance to a junior ?
For who's benefit is it that a junior is graded ?

Most junior chess is deliberately ungraded, especially until they start playing more seriously and have a reasonable understanding of the game.


Answer no 1: In part, the importance is psychological that it's a symbol of attainment and a comparitor against peers. But, perhaps more importantly, grades are used as measurements to determine whether juniors are strong enough for various purposes such as participation in J4NCL and exemption from pre-qualifying in various LJCC events. At my club, where the number of juniors wishing to join invariably exceeds the number of places available, it's something we'd take into account. I don't select county junior teams but I imagine it's a factor there too.

Answer no 2: It seems to follow from the above that, if a junior is ambitious at club/county/tournament level, he or she will be hindered by the absence of a grade. Grades also benefit organisers in being able to make choices between juniors.
Roger,
You are talking about the approx 1% of all junior chess played in England, which of course is worthy of grading. Most of the rest isn't.

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 8015
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: Grading of Junior Tournaments

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue May 30, 2017 12:06 am

Gareth T Ellis wrote:
Alex Holowczak » Mon May 29, 2017 4:54 pm

Neill Cooper wrote:
Presumably at near year's Megafinals Alex H will have to charge an excess of about £10 for each entrant who is not an ECF member.

We'll see. The hope is that having played in the Megafinal, they will play in some of Warwickshire CA's other tournament next season, and thus already be members long before then. Otherwise, yes, I'll try to arrange with the UKCC that the information about becoming Silver members is available at the time they enter.
Alex, you are running a qualifying stage of a UK event (not an ECF event), surely the entry fee and conditions are set by the tournament organisers and would be the same for all entrants.

As parents now have a choice to which Megafinal they enter their children, you could find numbers dropping next year if the current Free Silver Members don't want to join next year.
The UKCC organisers have shown admirable flexibility so far to cater for local situations. For example, we could choose our own schedule and time limit, an option the previous organisers didn't offer. So maybe they would be flexible there, too? It is something I'd need to talk to them about.

The biggest threat to the Warwickshire Megafinal in terms of entries, I learnt, is that it is much stronger than the Worcestershire Megafinal. Many of the children who live on Mike's boundary between the two who didn't qualify (i.e. all players in West Birmingham) expressed an interest in entering that one instead next year because they believe it will be easier for them to qualify for the Gigafinal. To what extent I am concerned about this - given our venue couldn't really hold the 250+ players and their families who turned up this year - is unclear to me at the moment, particularly given I also help to organise the Worcestershire Megafinal. If we lost 20% of the entries at Warwickshire, the benefit would be that we fit in the venue.

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: Grading of Junior Tournaments

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue May 30, 2017 10:31 am

Gareth T Ellis wrote:

Gareth T Ellis wrote:

Roger,
You are talking about the approx 1% of all junior chess played in England, which of course is worthy of grading. Most of the rest isn't.
Gareth, leaving other issues to one side for a moment, the statistical population we're discussing isn't "all junior chess played in England" but the chess played by the juniors who contest the megafinals where the percentage is much higher.

Post Reply