Are finals different?
-
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:08 pm
Are finals different?
I would like to know what people think about 'the last round' - generally known as 'the final' in non-chess sports.
Should individuals/teams stick to what they know best or take a different approach?
Is it just a specific example of 'keeping the chimp in the box' or are other factors at play?
Although I have posted in the "not chess" section, I think it would be helpful to bring chess into the debate, but I have put it here because the example that led me to raise the question comes from tennis - also a 'one-to-one' sport!
http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/car ... b1fcd3d5e4
All contributions gratefully received,
From Clive H (who has not been here for a long time!)
Should individuals/teams stick to what they know best or take a different approach?
Is it just a specific example of 'keeping the chimp in the box' or are other factors at play?
Although I have posted in the "not chess" section, I think it would be helpful to bring chess into the debate, but I have put it here because the example that led me to raise the question comes from tennis - also a 'one-to-one' sport!
http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/car ... b1fcd3d5e4
All contributions gratefully received,
From Clive H (who has not been here for a long time!)
-
- Posts: 3044
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am
Re: Are finals different?
Last rounds of a big swiss or something? Tactics often dictated by whether it is really winner takes all. Also a big difference if a draw will get shared first with 2 people or chances for other people to go past/likely to share with masses of people etc.
Teams chess tactics don't change *too* much, except in as much as the stronger teams do need to play slightly differently when playing each other rather than people they'd expect to beat quite comfortably.
Tons of other scenarios too.
Teams chess tactics don't change *too* much, except in as much as the stronger teams do need to play slightly differently when playing each other rather than people they'd expect to beat quite comfortably.
Tons of other scenarios too.
-
- Posts: 4820
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Bideford
Re: Are finals different?
My own modest contribution to the theory of such situations.
-
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:08 pm
Re: Are finals different?
Thanks for your thoughts guys. I'm rather distracted my latest attempt to find a suitable career (it's novelist this time) and I will return at greater length next time.
For now, I suspect that you should choose one approach and stick to it, although that could make you 'a target' if you never change - as with the footballer who always sends a penalty kick to the same side of the goal.
In the case of Caroline W (who now has 0/6 in finals this year) I suspect that she has fallen into the mind-set of "runner-up is a good result" as this is how I read her comments made before her latest setback.
https://www.thenational.ae/sport/tennis ... o-1.619127
All the best,
C
For now, I suspect that you should choose one approach and stick to it, although that could make you 'a target' if you never change - as with the footballer who always sends a penalty kick to the same side of the goal.
In the case of Caroline W (who now has 0/6 in finals this year) I suspect that she has fallen into the mind-set of "runner-up is a good result" as this is how I read her comments made before her latest setback.
https://www.thenational.ae/sport/tennis ... o-1.619127
All the best,
C
-
- Posts: 8454
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: Are finals different?
I followed the link and that's not how I readCliveHill wrote:In the case of Caroline W (who now has 0/6 in finals this year) I suspect that she has fallen into the mind-set of "runner-up is a good result" as this is how I read her comments made before her latest setback.
"I had one year where I went to six finals and I won all of them," Wozniacki said. "I guess it's a give and take sometimes and just that I keep myself in these situations is awesome. I give myself a chance to win and that's what I'm going to go out (Sunday) and try to do."
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
-
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:08 pm
Re: Are finals different?
Another reading might be that the losses are due to the tactics of the individual matches; as a regular follower of CW I tend to think it is more complicated than that.
-
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:08 pm
Re: Are finals different?
For those of you who missed it, the good news is that CW finally got to 1/7.
And the stats at the bottom of the piece suggest that she was right to think that there wasn't really a problem.
But it is still a good peg on which to hang the question.
And I will come back to the general issue eventually, I promise; the problem is that just at the moment my life is summed up by Edvard Munch's most famous painting!
(But in a good way!)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/41377151
And the stats at the bottom of the piece suggest that she was right to think that there wasn't really a problem.
But it is still a good peg on which to hang the question.
And I will come back to the general issue eventually, I promise; the problem is that just at the moment my life is summed up by Edvard Munch's most famous painting!
(But in a good way!)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/41377151
-
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:08 pm
Re: Are finals different?
Somewhat ironically, Caroline lost her first match in (technically in the second round of) her next tournament.
Which raises another important question in sport psychology - how do you maintain good form? Whether the problem is (mental) exhaustion or resting on your laurels, there is always something to think about!
Which raises another important question in sport psychology - how do you maintain good form? Whether the problem is (mental) exhaustion or resting on your laurels, there is always something to think about!
-
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:08 pm
Re: Are finals different?
And so it seems that Caroline knew how to win the most important final of all, and is now ranked number three in the world!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/41795680
Reminds me a little bit of the year when Keke Rosberg won the Formula One championship with only two race wins (1982).
But it’s also worth thinking about the way scoring systems affect sporting philosophy and tactics (there are no draws in tennis – although there could be, just as there are draws in league format snooker). But that will have to be a topic for another day.
(meant to be a smiley!)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/41795680
Reminds me a little bit of the year when Keke Rosberg won the Formula One championship with only two race wins (1982).
But it’s also worth thinking about the way scoring systems affect sporting philosophy and tactics (there are no draws in tennis – although there could be, just as there are draws in league format snooker). But that will have to be a topic for another day.
(meant to be a smiley!)
-
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:08 pm
Re: Are finals different?
For anyone who missed it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/42844093
I suppose that apart from congratulating CW on her achievement the other point - which I should have thought of earlier - is her percentage of victories in all finals throughout her career. I will have to look this up/work it out at some point.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/42844093
I suppose that apart from congratulating CW on her achievement the other point - which I should have thought of earlier - is her percentage of victories in all finals throughout her career. I will have to look this up/work it out at some point.
-
- Posts: 3186
- Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm
Re: Are finals different?
It's hard to generalize regarding 'the last round' but I have seen over the years many instances where those slightly ahead of the field fix the final game with a quick draw, just to ensure they get their prize. The last time I saw it I missed the game because a draw was agreed after 4 moves, within 20 seconds or so. The final round can be a real anti-climax in chess.
-
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:08 pm
Re: Are finals different?
Well, of course you can't fix the last round of a tennis tournament in that way!
From a sporting point of view, 'Armageddon deciders' etc, have some advantages, although they are probably an offence against good chess!
From a sporting point of view, 'Armageddon deciders' etc, have some advantages, although they are probably an offence against good chess!
-
- Posts: 3186
- Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm
Re: Are finals different?
I have certainly noticed over the years that many of the complaints levelled against deciders were made for 'financial' reasons and not aesthetic ones.
-
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:08 pm
Re: Are finals different?
Nothing to do with finals, but following Caroline's tennis career is rarely dull!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/ ... nting-row/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/ ... nting-row/
-
- Posts: 3186
- Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm
Re: Are finals different?
Well its true that the complaints were mostly aimed at the earlier rounds against players low down in the rankings.