Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

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Nick Ivell
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Nick Ivell » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:26 am

I think it's pretty clear that Kramnik's best years are behind him. I ask myself the sad question: is the same true of Aronian? After this performance I can't see him ever mounting a serious challenge for the world championship.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:34 am

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:26 am
I think it's pretty clear that Kramnik's best years are behind him
I'm not at all sure I agree with this.
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Nick Ivell
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Nick Ivell » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:55 am

Is chess the new poker? Against Caruana, Kramnik played his early ...c5 innovation knowing it was bad. He described it as a bluff, and seemed satisfied that it was 'not losing'.

Mick Norris
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:01 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:34 am
Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:26 am
I think it's pretty clear that Kramnik's best years are behind him
I'm not at all sure I agree with this.
Like Vishy, without the pressure of the world championship cycle, he can be liberated and play; so, hopefully lots of interesting ideas from both of them
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:02 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:55 am
Against Caruana, Kramnik played his early ...c5 innovation knowing it was bad. He described it as a bluff, and seemed satisfied that it was 'not losing'.
There's both the Benko and Marshall with similar ideas. Give up a pawn for approximate equality, although opinions may differ on the reliability of the Benko.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:48 pm

The Marshall's not a bluff though
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:01 pm

Round 12 about to get underway:

1 GM Grischuk, A. (6) 2767 — — GM Aronian, L. (3½) 2794
2 GM Karjakin, S. (6) 2763 — — GM Caruana, F. (7) 2784
3 GM Kramnik, V. (5) 2800— — GM So, Wesley (4½) 2799
4 GM Mamedyarov (6½) 2809— — GM Ding, Liren (5½) 2769

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:34 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:34 am
Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:26 am
I think it's pretty clear that Kramnik's best years are behind him
I'm not at all sure I agree with this.
Well he is nearly 43, and time waits for no-one in the end. No reason why he can't have lots of interesting chess left in him, though.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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JustinHorton
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:27 pm

Sure. But he nevertheless strikes me as the player in the tournament who would have been the most likely to trouble Carlsen.
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AustinElliott
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by AustinElliott » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:45 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:34 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:34 am
Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:26 am
I think it's pretty clear that Kramnik's best years are behind him
I'm not at all sure I agree with this.
Well he is nearly 43, and time waits for no-one in the end. No reason why he can't have lots of interesting chess left in him, though.
There are players who have stuck around at the top well past their mid-40s, of course, Korchnoi and Smyslov being the two most obvious examples. One suspects it is less likely in the modern era given the emphasis both on lots of calculation and on deep opening prep... But the older examples (and those of Anand and Gelfand) do suggest that a falling off of results post-40 yo is perhaps more about failing desire than about failing ability. Of course, they're probably not going to be World Title contenders, but second the comment about interesting chess. The Kramnik of the last decade has been a far more interesting player to watch than the super-accurate 'Mr Berlin' who took the title off Kasparov.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:17 pm

Possibility of some interesting competitive results today. The tournament has lost a bit of sparkle lately with the two leaders both making draws in all their games in the second half so far. But today both may struggle to draw and the resurgence of Karjakin, should he follow through with a win today, would be very much cat among pigeon material.

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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by David Robertson » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:32 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:17 pm
the resurgence of Karjakin, should he follow through with a win today, would be very much cat among pigeon material
Would be very much a catastrophe, I think you mean. I'm sat here furiously jabbing needles into a voodoo doll named Karjakin. Anyway, I absolutely do not understand how SF assesses the game as #26 [+0.9] when the little creep is the exchange down. Level, OK; but a pawn up, surely not

Meanwhile, Ding has moved into 'solid draw' territory by going a Q up

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JustinHorton
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:43 pm

I still think I'd back Caruana to hold this (move 31) and if he does he's nearly home and hosed. If he doesn't...
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:52 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:01 pm
Round 12 about to get underway:

1 GM Grischuk, A. (6) 2767 — — GM Aronian, L. (3½) 2794
2 GM Karjakin, S. (6) 2763 — — GM Caruana, F. (7) 2784
3 GM Kramnik, V. (5) 2800— — GM So, Wesley (4½) 2799
4 GM Mamedyarov (6½) 2809— — GM Ding, Liren (5½) 2769
Mamedyarov 0 Ding 1. Mamedyarov may remain half off the lead though..............

Leonard Barden
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Re: Candidates Tournament in Berlin March 2018

Post by Leonard Barden » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:03 pm

First tie break is the direct encounter minimatch , or the sub tournament if more than two tie.

Second tiebreak is number of wins.

Third tiebreak is Sonneborn-Berger.

Before today Karjakin was worse not just on points but because he was 0.5-1.5 against Mamedyarov.

If today ends up Caruana and Karjakin +2, Ding, Grischuk and Mamedyarov +1

then Karjakin will have the tiebreak edge on Caruana (1.5-0.5 in the minimatch)
a points edge on Mamedyarov, and most wins of all contenders.

But of course the stated situation with two rounds to go becomes significantly a test of nerves and ability to deal with pressure for all five of them.

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