Club bank accounts
-
- Posts: 5837
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
"Maybe not, but there was a case many years ago of a treasurer secretly borrowing money from an organisation for personal benefit before returning it. If memory serves me correctly, he'd been doing it for about 3 years before anyone noticed."
Did that organization then say, "Give all the money back and we won't tell anyone"?
(edited for typo)
Did that organization then say, "Give all the money back and we won't tell anyone"?
(edited for typo)
-
- Posts: 3559
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
- Location: Awbridge, Hampshire
Re: Club bank accounts
It clearly wasn't kept secret otherwise I wouldn't know about it.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:04 am"Maybe not, but there was a case many years ago of a treasurer secretly borrowing money from an organisation for personal benefit before returning it. If memory serves me correctly, he'd been doing it for about 3 years before anyone noticed."
Did that organization then say, "Give all the money back and we won't tell anyone"?
I don't know whether he had any borrowed money at the time he was found out or not. He denied any wrongdoing, but paid compensation for lost interest on the money while he had it. No further action was taken, apart, I assume, from dismissing him as Treasurer.
-
- Posts: 5837
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
"It clearly wasn't kept secret otherwise I wouldn't know about it."
If it's the same one that I'm thinking of, he was allowed to resign then got a similar job elsewhere, again accidentally borrowing money from that company, but they were a bit more forthright, and he ended up doing time! The second company was a bit cross at the first one...
If it's the same one that I'm thinking of, he was allowed to resign then got a similar job elsewhere, again accidentally borrowing money from that company, but they were a bit more forthright, and he ended up doing time! The second company was a bit cross at the first one...
-
- Posts: 1945
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
An ex-Treasurer/Financial Director of the BCF certainly defrauded the Federation.
-
- Posts: 5837
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
"An ex-Treasurer/Financial Director of the BCF certainly defrauded the Federation."
That's the one! (I assume there's only one...) Actually, both his next employers and the police were unhappy that he had been allowed to quietly resign, although I can see why the Federation acted as they did.
That's the one! (I assume there's only one...) Actually, both his next employers and the police were unhappy that he had been allowed to quietly resign, although I can see why the Federation acted as they did.
-
- Posts: 8472
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
I once employed an admin manager who was caught stealing and sacked. He applied for a job with the predecessor of the Financial Conduct Authority. They asked for a reference. I sent back the worst one that I was advised was legally permissible, giving the broadest possible hint that all was not right, and they hired him immediately. He later got a job with a big bank and did six months for stealing their money.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:56 amActually, both his next employers and the police were unhappy that he had been allowed to quietly resign, although I can see why the Federation acted as they did.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
-
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
The way our account with the 'former shilling gem' bank (sorry, I'm still not diverging identity but crossword addicts will find this easy!) works is that three club officers are acceptable signatories to the account but, even for larger amounts, only two signatories are needed. That attempts to pre-empt the situation where one officer is for one reason or another unavailable. Where these are internet payments, A requests the payment and the request is then passed to B and/or C who has to authorise it. For smaller amounts, in our case £200, just one authorisation is needed - that's to avoid undue delays over relatively trifling amounts. I'm absolutely convinced of the probity of our officers but, even if this were not the case, the fact that three different officers have internet access to the current state of the account would be something of a deterrent to any irregular activity.
-
- Posts: 1945
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
The person concerned passed away in 2008 and was a town councillor at the time having been elected in 2007. His 2007 manifesto stated "until recently he was Treasurer of the British Chess Federation" which is about as far from the truth as you could get.Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:56 am"An ex-Treasurer/Financial Director of the BCF certainly defrauded the Federation."
That's the one! (I assume there's only one...) Actually, both his next employers and the police were unhappy that he had been allowed to quietly resign, although I can see why the Federation acted as they did.
-
- Posts: 5837
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
"The person concerned passed away in 2008 and was a town councillor at the time having been elected in 2007. His 2007 manifesto stated "until recently he was Treasurer of the British Chess Federation" which is about as far from the truth as you could get."
Wow - I didn't know the bit about being a town councillor. If the council's anything like mine, I'm not altogether surprised!
Wow - I didn't know the bit about being a town councillor. If the council's anything like mine, I'm not altogether surprised!
-
- Posts: 1420
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
Hello Roger. Does the software prevent A authorising their own payment ?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:40 amWhere these are internet payments, A requests the payment and the request is then passed to B and/or C who has to authorise it.
Of more concern for chess clubs is that most are set up as Unincorporated Associations which usually means any member of the management committee can enter into a contract on behalf of the club without the consent of the others, with consequences.
-
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
As to your first question, yes, or so I am led to believe. In our case, I'd like to believe A hasn't tested this out! As to your second point, I'm not a lawyer but I'd welcome a comment from anyone who is. (My apologies, Michael, if it proves you are yourself a legal eagle!).E Michael White wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:41 pmHello Roger. Does the software prevent A authorising their own payment ?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:40 amWhere these are internet payments, A requests the payment and the request is then passed to B and/or C who has to authorise it.
Of more concern for chess clubs is that most are set up as Unincorporated Associations which usually means any member of the management committee can enter into a contract on behalf of the club without the consent of the others, with consequences.
-
- Posts: 1420
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
Nope I'm not a lawyer. I've been mistakenly accused of being many things eg an actor, author and stuntman plus more but never a lawyer. Come to think of it a background of actor, author and stuntman would probably be useful for a lawyer.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:29 pmAs to your second point, I'm not a lawyer but I'd welcome a comment from anyone who is. (My apologies, Michael, if it proves you are yourself a legal eagle!).
Last edited by E Michael White on Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 3735
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
- Location: Hayes (Middx)
Re: Club bank accounts
The way it works is that A raises a transaction or set of transactions. B or C or D must then authorise the transaction before any funds are transferred. All have PIN terminals to verify identity.
-
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 8:46 pm
- Location: Southend, Essex
Re: Club bank accounts
If you present a cheque for £200 no-one checks it anyway.
And no wonder clubs find it difficult to find treasurers if members fill the need for Fort Knox level security... If you've got £10,000s in the bank maybe, but for your average club? A decent auditor/examiner is probably more important and significantly increases the risks of the dodgy treasurer becoming a social pariah!
And no wonder clubs find it difficult to find treasurers if members fill the need for Fort Knox level security... If you've got £10,000s in the bank maybe, but for your average club? A decent auditor/examiner is probably more important and significantly increases the risks of the dodgy treasurer becoming a social pariah!
James.
-
- Posts: 1420
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm
Re: Club bank accounts
I realise this is a few months back now and I meant to reply earlier. As said I am not a lawyer but saw this summary recently from people who are lawyers:-Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:29 pmAs to your second point, I'm not a lawyer but I'd welcome a comment from anyone who is. (My apologies, Michael, if it proves you are yourself a legal eagle!).
https://www.morton-fraser.com/knowledg ... ions-facts