Who is our next Adams?

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IanCalvert
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by IanCalvert » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:50 pm

D'0h!

Sorry Gavin Hughes, I thought Nick started it!?

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:10 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:24 am
"Like it or not, those guys are star performers from a very early age."

I more or less agree, but there are exceptions. It seems Lasker didn't even learn to play until he was 11 years old!
Chigorin didn't learn until he was 18 or something similarly ridiculous?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:22 pm

I think one can summarise this quite succinctly. If a junior's sole aptitude is playing chess, and s/he has GM potential, then life as a professional chess player may be an obvious choice. However, most English juniors with this potential tend to be academically gifted which gives them other (and more conventional) career options which they are very likely to follow at the expense of chess. Had those juniors been born in certain other countries, where conventional career options are more limited and/or less lucrative, chances are that they would have been much more inclined to follow the chess option - and all the more so if their government provides funding for strong players.

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John Clarke
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by John Clarke » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:00 am

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:10 pm
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:24 am
"Like it or not, those guys are star performers from a very early age."

I more or less agree, but there are exceptions. It seems Lasker didn't even learn to play until he was 11 years old!
Chigorin didn't learn until he was 18 or something similarly ridiculous?
Blackburne was nineteen when he learnt to play (Staunton also, according to Golombek).
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

Gavin Hughes
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by Gavin Hughes » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:05 pm

IanCalvert wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:50 pm
D'0h!

Sorry Gavin Hughes, I thought Nick started it!?
Well i think you are right. He has put a lot of academic work into the game.

Nick Grey
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:01 pm

Nick is older than most of us.

The strongest young player I have played at 5 or 6 was Luke McShane. Rod was a member of Kings Head which is probably why he was Middlesex rather than Surrey.

Anyway the ECF list not out yet but if not counting for GMs I'm sure the experts can fathom our K-40 & why some players default against under-rated Juniors rather than lose rating points.

As 90% of young people go into university nowadays as opposed to the 10% when I went to university we may want to move the goal posts rather than No 1.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:13 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:01 pm
Nick is older than most of us.

The strongest young player I have played at 5 or 6 was Luke McShane
What happened?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Nick Grey
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:43 pm

As age is being removed from computer systems it is difficult to tell. I expected that Luke would be stronger than I in a few years time.

I have seen Luke lose it at the chess board once at a young age. His dad had been substituted into a higher board than he was. Rod ended up playing against me and lost. Luke lost his game too.

I have a friend that gave up chess as a teenager when he lost against a much younger player at his chess club. That player was John Nunn.

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Peter D Williams
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by Peter D Williams » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:08 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:22 pm
I think one can summarise this quite succinctly. If a junior's sole aptitude is playing chess, and s/he has GM potential, then life as a professional chess player may be an obvious choice. However, most English juniors with this potential tend to be academically gifted which gives them other (and more conventional) career options which they are very likely to follow at the expense of chess. Had those juniors been born in certain other countries, where conventional career options are more limited and/or less lucrative, chances are that they would have been much more inclined to follow the chess option - and all the more so if their government provides funding for strong players.
Afternoon all
i agree 100% with that.The only thing i would add is lack of support from ECF unless you jump though various hoops
when you are successful many losers bark at you.

David Robertson
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by David Robertson » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:48 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:01 pm
As 90% of young people go into university nowadays
Nonsense! It remains under 50%

Nick Grey
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by Nick Grey » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:55 pm

The other 40% are on training schemes from 19-24. They were care packages before the new government put them into further education.
Either way you cannot expect parents who are still contributing to their living expenses to also contribute to leisure activities.
Perhaps the pensioners within the ECF can make additional contributions to supporting young chess players.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:53 pm

I once said to the late Campo, 'One can't legislate for world class players'.
'No,' he responded. 'But you can provide the fertiliser in the garden where they can flourish.'

I shared a taxi with Nigel Short after a TV programme. I asked him what his plans were now he had finished O Levels. 'I'll be going into the Sixth form'. Nomally I wouldn't interfere, but I sid that I thought this was a mistake in his case. He could make a great deal of money as a famus prodigy. 'But that's what my mother wants me to do', was his response. He gave up his studies about 8 months later as he had so many opportunities.

I teased Michael Adams that he would have to pay tax on the £100 he had just won in the opening event at the British in Blackpool in 1988. 'Well, I'm turning professional next month', he responded. he actually stayed on 'the books' of Truro School until 18. He only went to the school for one day in the upper 6th. I suspect he stayed on so that he could play in the Sunday Times National Schools Championship.

David Robertson
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by David Robertson » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:09 pm

Leonard Barden cites this thread and name-checks this forum. Hhmm...I hope this works out OK :?

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JustinHorton
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:05 pm

For some reason I can never see the text to the diagram on Leonard's columns when I look at them on my (Android) phone. I can see it on a laptop OK.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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NickFaulks
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Re: Who is our next Adams?

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 pm

Leonard Barden wrote:Russia’s best juniors do not compare.
That's a bit unfair. What about Andrey Esipenko, the world's top under 16 player?

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