An early game of P S Milner-Barry

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Gerard Killoran
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An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:16 pm

From the Oxfordshire Weekly News of July 18, 1923.


Kevin Thurlow
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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:42 pm

Thanks - most useful!

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by Brian Denman » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:58 pm

This game, which was played on 11th April 1923, was a play-off to decide which player advanced from the preliminary section to the finals. William Ernest Francis Court (1906-1964) was a Hastings Grammar School pupil at the time of the Congress.

This was the first time that the Hastings Boys' Congress had allowed competitors from outside the local area. It appears, however, that the boys' competition was not called the British Boys' Championship until 1934. I can only assume that at some time the BCF organisers decided to backdate the list of winners to 1923 as their records show P S Milner-Barry as the first winner of the national junior event. Perhaps someone has some information about this.

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by Gerard Killoran » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:34 pm

This indicates that this was a BCF title from the beginning.

From the Falkirk Herald - Wednesday 18 April 1923.

Falkirk Herald - Wednesday 18 April 1923.png
Falkirk Herald - Wednesday 18 April 1923.png (208.47 KiB) Viewed 1474 times

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by Brian Denman » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:11 am

Thanks for this. I took the information from Reg Cload's book 'Battles of Hastings' written with Ray Keene (1991). In it he states (page 31): "Beginning in 1934, the Congress was recognised as a national event, re-named the 'British Boys Championship.'" However, this is clearly wrong as other information backs up the fact that the winner at the Hastings Boys Congress was given the title of British Boys champion from an earlier date. Sorry for my mistake.

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by Gerard Killoran » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:07 am

Brian Denman wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:11 am
Thanks for this. I took the information from Reg Cload's book 'Battles of Hastings' written with Ray Keene (1991). In it he states (page 31): "Beginning in 1934, the Congress was recognised as a national event, re-named the 'British Boys Championship.'" However, this is clearly wrong as other information backs up the fact that the winner at the Hastings Boys Congress was given the title of British Boys champion from an earlier date. Sorry for my mistake.
Cheers Brian, but it wasn't your mistake. Unless the mistake you made was to overlook '...written with Ray Keene'.

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by John Upham » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:11 pm

Can anyone explain the reason (if any) that PSMB is given as

Milner-Barry, PS Thelma

in the ECF grading database ?

I am confused enough already without trying to understand this !

The grading code is allegedly

115591L

I am informed that the ECF Master List gives PS Thelma.

DoB is blanks so maybe it is a different person ?

Thelma was PSMBs wife. Did she play and have a final grading of 157D in 1994 ?
Last edited by John Upham on Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:17 pm

John Upham wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:11 pm
DoB is blanks so maybe it is a different person ?
I believe Lady Thelma Milner-Barry played competitive chess.

(edit) Although "The Times" thinks otherwise.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thel ... smxsczcsbx (/edit)

Perhaps being a BCF Director was enough to acquire a grading reference.

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by John Upham » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:28 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:17 pm
John Upham wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:11 pm
DoB is blanks so maybe it is a different person ?
I believe Lady Thelma Milner-Barry played competitive chess.

(edit) Although "The Times" thinks otherwise.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thel ... smxsczcsbx (/edit)

Perhaps being a BCF Director was enough to acquire a grading reference.

Her (or his) last grading was 157D. Is this likely for Thelma or more likely or PSMB who passed away one year later ?
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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:00 pm

"Her (or his) last grading was 157D. Is this likely for Thelma or more likely or PSMB who passed away one year later ?"

I think Sir Stuart had dropped to 160ish in his final years. I played above him in a Civil Service vs RAF match in 1992, (against DB Pritchard), when I was 185. He was a little lower than that, but it didn't stop him winning very quickly on board 2 with 1.e4 e5, 2.f4 exf4, 3.Qf3. I don't seem to have a record of the entire match, but it might be in papers yet to be searched...

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:13 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:00 pm
"Her (or his) last grading was 157D. Is this likely for Thelma or more likely or PSMB who passed away one year later ?"

I think Sir Stuart had dropped to 160ish in his final years.
I suspect that 157 in July 1994 is Sir Stuart's last grade and that the Thelma in the name is gibberish.

A correction to "Milner-Barry, Sir P Stuart (deceased)" would seem to be in order.

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by James Pratt » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:11 pm

Lady Thelma would have informed us of his death. (Does that explain why the names appear merged?) I think she came into the picture following a meeting at the BCF Congress at Edinburgh 1985, Keene's idea.

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by John Upham » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:13 am

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:51 pm

I now find that Sir Stuart was graded 173 at the time of the match I mentioned (1st February 1992).

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Re: An early game of P S Milner-Barry

Post by John Upham » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:00 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:51 pm
I now find that Sir Stuart was graded 173 at the time of the match I mentioned (1st February 1992).
Kevin,

Does your list show the BCF grading code for PSMB ?
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