Prize Money is Out of Control

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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:25 am

" I doubt if any of the 'top' players have played in many Open events (excepting national championships) in any of the last 5 years."

Isle of Man attracted a few...

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:46 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:25 am
Isle of Man attracted a few...
There were also big tournaments in one of the Gulf states around Christmas or New Year. There was a photo of Kramnik picking up his opponent's name card as if to wonder "who are you?".

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Geoff Chandler » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:06 pm

Nakamura, Aronian and MVL played in Gibraltar last year, 10 rounds first prize £25,000.
Fair enough. A good event. My main beef is the money the 'Fantastic Four' got in the London Classic
for two games only against the same opponent and then onto the cartoon Mickey Mouse chess.

Gibraltar 2018 was won by Aronian who made more by coming 4th at the London Classic. £32,000.
for playing two drawn games. Nakamura, the London Classic winner picked up £95,000.
(I'll do the maths, that is approx. £13,500 per day including the rest day.)

Caruana is the Open Dodger of the 'Fantastic Four' he will be Invisible Man. I'll leave it up to you to decide who
is 'The Thing', 'The Human Torch' and 'Captain Fantastic'. I'll be their arch enemy. 'Doctor Doom, Gloom and Despair.'

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:10 pm

Well that will probably teach me to post late at night and not read back what I've written. I meant excessive not obsessive. I also take Geoff's hint that perhaps this was not intended as a serious thread. The offer to start such a thread is one I may well take up although we have had similar threads in the past.

In the meantime, and trying to continue in Geoff's spirit, it's worth noting what the `Fantastic Four` - heaving received all this money - also did. They spruced themselves up for the occasion and made an effort to look presentable rather than shuffling in wearing their gardening clothes. It's likely they had to attend a formal dinner at some point; I suspect they didn't just park themselves in the middle of the room and spread out with their own sandwiches. I'm perhaps not comparing like with like but it's worth noting what grass roots players have done to deter sponsors in the past.
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Adam Raoof
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Adam Raoof » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:15 pm

What private sponsors do with their money is none of my business. If you want to change things, get a sponsor on board who will fund the type of event you want to see!

What the ECF does with our money really is our business.

NickFaulks
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:53 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:10 pm
It's likely they had to attend a formal dinner at some point
I'm sure we all feel their pain.

Mick Norris
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:02 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:06 pm
Nakamura, Aronian and MVL played in Gibraltar last year

Caruana played Wijk Aan Zee, which clashed
Geoff Chandler wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:06 pm
Caruana is the Open Dodger of the 'Fantastic Four' he will be Invisible Man.
Caruana played the Isle of Man Open in 2017; he missed 2018 due to the World Championship match
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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JustinHorton
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:05 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:10 pm
it's worth noting what grass roots players have done to deter sponsors in the past.
Go ahead and note it - what specifically are you thinking of?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:36 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:05 pm
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:10 pm
it's worth noting what grass roots players have done to deter sponsors in the past.
Go ahead and note it - what specifically are you thinking of?
It's more generalisations than specifics but I do think a lot of grassroots organisers and players don't realise the importance of putting on a professional front (and I've said before there is a difference between professionals and professionalism). I'm also being slightly loose with sponsors so that it includes philanthropists and even organisations that are prepared to offer decent venues on generous terms. There are examples of attempts at organising more upmarket events being derailed by players turning up scruffily dressed to events or (quite famously on this forum) kicking up a stink because they couldn't eat their own brought in food.

Even last year there was an example (on this forum) of a player being denied a refund on an entry fee at an elite event saying they were going to take their demand to the sponsor. The more hassle a sponsor receives, the more likely they are to take their money elsewhere. The bottom line is that for professional people there is nothing more irritating than sloppy amateurism.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:51 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:36 pm
The bottom line is that for professional people there is nothing more irritating than sloppy amateurism.
Oh, I am sure there are things far more irritating than that. It is part of being professional that you should be able to deal with a certain level of things that irritate you.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:59 pm

Or perhaps the problem is best looked at the other way. I'm a sponsor; let's assume I'm a local business keen to support the local community. I don't know much about how chess is actually organised but I used to play at school and I always enjoyed it. All I want in return for my cash is a little bit of PR for my company. So what I can do for you?`
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JustinHorton
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:34 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:36 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:05 pm
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:10 pm
it's worth noting what grass roots players have done to deter sponsors in the past.
Go ahead and note it - what specifically are you thinking of?
It's more generalisations than specifics
Then I'll take it that the problems you're noting may be more imaginary than real.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:42 pm

You can see the prize allocations for the World Rapid and Blitz here: http://www.fide.com/component/content/a ... tions.html

If I've added them up correctly, 72 players won more than $1,000; which is probably close to the break even point. It's good that the prizes go down so far at this event, it's quite rare, but very welcome.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:44 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:34 pm
Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:36 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:05 pm


Go ahead and note it - what specifically are you thinking of?
It's more generalisations than specifics
Then I'll take it that the problems you're noting may be more imaginary than real.
There was a rumour a few years back that one of the country's biggest congresses might lose its hotel venue. Another example, albeit going back ten years ago now, was the Chess For Schools fiasco. That appears have to have been a disaster in just about every direction but a big factor appears have been amateurism at the ECF at the time. The very real number of individuals with professional backgrounds who have tried to get involved with English chess and ended up throwing their hands up in despair should tell us something as well.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Prize Money is Out of Control

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:21 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:44 pm
but a big factor appears have been amateurism at the ECF at the time.
The biggest factor was the inability of the sponsor to supply the promised sets. If the ECF was amateur, it was not being prepared to say "Thanks, but no thanks" until it had expended quite a lot of money, time and volunteer resources on the project.

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