4NCL and the BCF

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
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Neil Graham
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4NCL and the BCF

Post by Neil Graham » Mon May 13, 2019 9:02 am

Mike Truran wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:59 pm
I have to admit I was there at the time and I don’t recall the BCF trying to “destroy” the 4NCL. But perhaps I didn’t notice. To be fair, they weren’t that supportive either.

But the story of BCF opposition to the 4NCL seems to have entered folklore. It would be interesting to get some background.
This topic has been running on the Counties Championship thread. Rather than continue hijacking that thread, I will endeavour to provide the background here. Firstly can we do away with the idea that the BCF, as it then was, opposed the formation of the 4NCL.

Here is the relevant section from the 100th meeting of the BCF Management Board held at London in November 1992

:-

Proposed National Chess League

Chris Dunworth presented his paper to the Board and a lengthy discussion followed. The Board commended Chris for his hard work but it also expressed some concern that the proposal lacked detail on how it would be administered and financed e.g. who would be financially responsible if it failed?

The main concern of the Board was the clash of interests between the NCL and the present long term sponsor of the National Club Championships, Leigh Interests.

Chris Dunworth explained that it was of course desirable that the venture was endorsed by the BCF. The other countries in the British Isles had all endorsed it and it would definitely go ahead as planned for the 1993/4 season in any case. Simon Brown and Adam Black, both on the NCL committee, stressed that they saw no reason why the 4NCL could not exist along with BCF events and prospective sponsors of the NCL would not likely to clash with any BCF sponsorships.

Proposal Neil Graham proposed that the BCF endorse the NCL and make a £250 contribution towards setting-up costs. This was agreed with 8 for and 2 against. Simon Brown and Adam Black abstaining.

It was also agreed that there should be a liaison officer between the BCF and the NCL. Grete White was elected.


£250 in 1992 would be the equivalent of about £400 today.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL and the BCF

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon May 13, 2019 9:28 am

Neil Graham wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:02 am
Firstly can we do away with the idea that the BCF, as it then was, opposed the formation of the 4NCL.
The BCF didn't oppose the initial formation of the 4NCL and it isn't suggested that it did. What it did do, a couple of years later, was to make a failed attempt to set up a rival national league. That's documented in various extracts from the SCCU bulletin and the history of the league in terms of teams competing. It's also in the memory of players who might have been able to join teams.

Simon Brown
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Re: 4NCL and the BCF

Post by Simon Brown » Mon May 13, 2019 9:46 am

Richard just got that wrong. I was International Director at the time until I resigned in late 1995, I supported Chris and played in the league. I certainly didn't try to set up a rival league, and I don't recall anyone in the BCF trying to do so.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL and the BCF

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon May 13, 2019 9:55 am

Simon Brown wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:46 am
Richard just got that wrong.
There are various references, not just by RJH, in the reports on BCF activity at that time that it was attempting to set up a rival league in 1995. That also concurs with the memories of players whose ratings may have been high enough to participate either in the 4NCL or a hypothetical BCF league. We may also recall conversations where the "rumour" that the BCF was trying to replace the 4NCL was passed on. Barbican and Invicta were also absent from the 4NCL for one season.

(edit) I've also tracked down a reference in the BCM. That's as late as the April 1996 edition where reporting on the first six rounds it says
Although the BCF is toying with setting up its own rival league, this would attract little support despite the present irritation of players and sponsors.
(/edit)

Neil Graham
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Re: 4NCL and the BCF

Post by Neil Graham » Mon May 13, 2019 11:05 pm

In answer to my initial post "firstly"..................

There is more so "secondly"............

From the minutes of the BCF 119th Board Meeting in London 17th June 1995

The Director of International Chess [Simon Brown] spoke to his policy paper
PROPOSED That the BCF involve itself in a national club league.Carried unanimously
PROPOSED That the Director of International Chess be asked to seek the views of Mr Chris Dunworth on the BCF taking over the financial organisation of the Four Nations Chess League under a new name, with Mr Dunworth retained as consultant. Carried with one against.
PROPOSED That if Mr Dunworth declines, the BCF organise its own competition, Carried nem con.


I wasn't at this meeting and sent my apologies and had given my proxy to another delegate so cannot comment further.

There will be a "thirdly" and "fourthly" to follow in due course.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL and the BCF

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon May 13, 2019 11:38 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:05 pm
PROPOSED That if Mr Dunworth declines, the BCF organise its own competition, Carried nem con.[/i]

That does rather establish that it was the intent of the BCF management board to replace the 4NCL, not that it was able to implement its decision.

That would only happen if it could get a majority (or a plausible minority) of players and organisers to put up teams for the BCF's version. In the event, the BCF's ambition never got to the stage of setting dates and inviting entries.

Neil Graham
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Re: 4NCL and the BCF

Post by Neil Graham » Sat May 25, 2019 10:03 pm

Just to complete this - in brief here are the relevant parts of the minutes

120th Meeting of BCF Management Board Sept 1995
Chris Dunworth refuses to transfer responsibility for the Four Nations Chess League to the BCF
Proposed That a BCF National League be instituted. Carried nem con. Neil Graham asked that his abstention be recorded.

121st Meeting of the BCF Management Board November 1995
The Chairman tabled a letter from the International Director (Simon Brown) tendering his resignation.
Matters arising from previous meeting - Proposed. The idea of a National League remains on the table. Chris Howell will return to the Board with his ideas of a "Super League". Carried nem con.

As far as I can see this was kicked into the long grass (or left on the table) and never resurfaced again.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 4NCL and the BCF

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat May 25, 2019 11:26 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:03 pm
As far as I can see this was kicked into the long grass (or left on the table) and never resurfaced again.
Having recently looked back at the BCM's reports on the 4NCL in 1996, they comment about the BCF's rival league every so often, but note that nothing seemed to be developing.

Neil Graham
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Re: 4NCL and the BCF

Post by Neil Graham » Sun May 26, 2019 12:04 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 11:26 pm
Neil Graham wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:03 pm
As far as I can see this was kicked into the long grass (or left on the table) and never resurfaced again.
Having recently looked back at the BCM's reports on the 4NCL in 1996, they comment about the BCF's rival league every so often, but note that nothing seemed to be developing.
I do not have copies of the Management Board minutes Numbers 122 & 123 but by MB124 (April 1996) the item was clearly off the agenda and wasn't referred to or mentioned again. I hope that clears up Mike's original query - it is after all almost 25 years ago now.

Mike Truran
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Re: 4NCL and the BCF

Post by Mike Truran » Sun May 26, 2019 9:59 am

Many thanks, Neil - that's very helpful and informative.

John Reyes
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Re: 4NCL and the BCF

Post by John Reyes » Mon May 27, 2019 3:46 pm

Mike Truran wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 9:59 am
Many thanks, Neil - that's very helpful and informative.
Sound like the BDO and PDC

I think the 4NCL is like the PDC of darts and people prefer to play that then County chess etc

Maybe the Home director, could do something like this for a weekend in which the Semi Final and finals are played on the same weekend as I found this year people prefer playing 2 games and you could do a 3th or 4th event.
The 4ncl is growing and maybe we need to move with the times.
Any postings on here represent my personal views only

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