The word rook and Persia
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Re: The word rook and Persia
"Perhaps the more erudite members of the forum will know where the OED got all that from? I thought that the current shape of the piece came from a representation of a military howdah; I don't know where I got that idea from - maybe because I grew up near to the Elephant and Castle in South London."
The OED's research is generally pretty good. I thought the rook was supposed to look like a howdah as well.
As for, "anatalogically", is someone suggesting Karpov knows everything? He might, I suppose...
The OED's research is generally pretty good. I thought the rook was supposed to look like a howdah as well.
As for, "anatalogically", is someone suggesting Karpov knows everything? He might, I suppose...
Re: The word rook and Persia
I'll just say, in mitigation, that Francis posted this in General Chat.
If it had been posted in Chess History the criticisms would be justified.
Chess Questions might have been a better place for it.
If it had been posted in Chess History the criticisms would be justified.
Chess Questions might have been a better place for it.
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Re: The word rook and Persia
Wow, new info.
Rukh means face in Persian. Also (rarely)an outstanding, moral top athlete/fighter
Rukh means face in Persian. Also (rarely)an outstanding, moral top athlete/fighter
Re: The word rook and Persia
Hi Hoosh (hope you don't mind me calling you by that name?)
Always good to hear comments "straight from the horse's mouth" (hope you understand that is just a figure of speech and not an implication of anything personal!)
Can you tell me the names of all the chess pieces in your native language, please?
Always good to hear comments "straight from the horse's mouth" (hope you understand that is just a figure of speech and not an implication of anything personal!)
Can you tell me the names of all the chess pieces in your native language, please?
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Re: The word rook and Persia
Hi.
رخ /rukh/for rook
اسب /asb/ for Knight
فیل /fil/for Bishop
وزیر /vazir/ for Queen
شاه /shäh/ for King
پیاده /piäde/ for pawn
رخ /rukh/for rook
اسب /asb/ for Knight
فیل /fil/for Bishop
وزیر /vazir/ for Queen
شاه /shäh/ for King
پیاده /piäde/ for pawn
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Re: The word rook and Persia
I do not consider myself to have a disregard for facts. I have seen and read many chess books and listened to other chess players. Sometimes a more elementary discussion is required. Isn't the point of the forum to discuss chess? Who will be deciding who is wrong and who is right? What is false and what is true?Tim Harding wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:13 pmSince the first edition of the OED (edited by Sir James Murray, father of chess historian Harold Murray), began in the 1880s and was completed in 1928, and had 10 volumes, while the edition currently in preparation is the 3rd, I think we can assume you are thinking of some other dictionary entirely, or else you have a total disregard for facts?
Re: The word rook and Persia
Yes, when this thread ends up in "Not Chess!" those questions need to be asked.
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Re: The word rook and Persia
"Hi.
رخ /rukh/for rook
اسب /asb/ for Knight
فیل /fil/for Bishop
وزیر /vazir/ for Queen
شاه /shäh/ for King
پیاده /piäde/ for pawn"
That is interesting - particularly the "vazir" for queen, because it has been argued I believe that originally the queen was really a "vizier", i.e. king's assistant, then as the game arrived in Europe, somebody used "queen" as they thought queens go with kings. So maybe the confusion goes back even further? Or maybe it was always meant to be a queen, and the vazir/vizier similarity confused people later!
رخ /rukh/for rook
اسب /asb/ for Knight
فیل /fil/for Bishop
وزیر /vazir/ for Queen
شاه /shäh/ for King
پیاده /piäde/ for pawn"
That is interesting - particularly the "vazir" for queen, because it has been argued I believe that originally the queen was really a "vizier", i.e. king's assistant, then as the game arrived in Europe, somebody used "queen" as they thought queens go with kings. So maybe the confusion goes back even further? Or maybe it was always meant to be a queen, and the vazir/vizier similarity confused people later!
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Re: The word rook and Persia
No, it was mantri in India, meaning wise man.
/Vezr/ means burden, so vazir means he who carries the burden. He is minister, an advisor to the PM, and thus to the king
/Vezr/ means burden, so vazir means he who carries the burden. He is minister, an advisor to the PM, and thus to the king
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Re: The word rook and Persia
Thanks - so the confusion was later? Once words get translated, this tends to happen, and meanings change as well over time. But I am not going into that territory here!
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Re: The word rook and Persia
You're welcome.
What confusion?
We always called it vazir,
What confusion?
We always called it vazir,
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Re: The word rook and Persia
We were confused in Europe! It probably made perfect sense where you are.
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Re: The word rook and Persia
Were we? How is it different from saying that we are confused in Europe because the English say 'yes' the French say 'oui' and the Germans say 'ja'?
Though on the chess front we remain just as "confused" as ever. Take England and Germany:
Though on the chess front we remain just as "confused" as ever. Take England and Germany:
Code: Select all
England Germany
Pawn Farmer
Knight Jumper
Bishop Runner
Rook Tower
Queen Lady
King Well the Germans do get this one right.
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Re: The word rook and Persia
You mean because some say Queen & some say Dama and some say Ferz?Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:02 pmWe were confused in Europe! It probably made perfect sense where you are.
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Re: The word rook and Persia
It was more that in Europe, we call it a "queen" in most languages, although it originally seemed to be a "vizier". In Europe, we associate kings with queens, whereas maybe in your part of the world, the "vizier" had a bigger role. Kings and queens in UK have (or had) people who give advice, but probably most of the public have no idea who those people are. It is probably a committee anyway.