World Cup Knockout 2019
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
I had a go at a tournament bracket, which I think explains it a bit more easily. It's obviously a fake tournament with fake names. If you get the seeds in the right place, it's not so difficult conceptually, but hard to put it all into English. http://bracketcloud.com/tournament/150851
-
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:10 am
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
Great save by Luke, with his lone N v his opponent's 2 Bishops. He used the same method I employed at Hastings v GM Lagarde a few years ago - viz you put the N on g2, g7, b2 or b7 and when he turfs you out of one of those you head for another:
https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219
https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219
-
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:42 pm
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
Yes, my reading was that he accepts that the colour is correct - his issue seems to be that he asked as he wasn’t sure, but was given the wrong information.Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:11 pmHe was supposed to be Black, by my reading of the regulations.
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
Yes, I've read that now. Not sure I can really defend that if that turns out to be the case...Matt Fletcher wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:16 pmYes, my reading was that he accepts that the colour is correct - his issue seems to be that he asked as he wasn’t sure, but was given the wrong information.Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:11 pmHe was supposed to be Black, by my reading of the regulations.
-
- Posts: 10364
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Somewhere you're not
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
Hard to know what the case is, though, since he doesn't actually say what he was told.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."
lostontime.blogspot.com
-
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:46 pm
- Location: Dublin, Ireland
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
Yes that does explain it, thank you.Alex Holowczak wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:04 pmI had a go at a tournament bracket, which I think explains it a bit more easily. It's obviously a fake tournament with fake names. If you get the seeds in the right place, it's not so difficult conceptually, but hard to put it all into English. http://bracketcloud.com/tournament/150851
What a shame that in your fake tournament you couldn't have let the winner be the one chess player with the non-fake name: the great snooker champion Steve Davis! (At least he won his first round match.)
Tim Harding
Historian and FIDE Arbiter
Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com
Historian and FIDE Arbiter
Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com
-
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:46 pm
- Location: Dublin, Ireland
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
I remember watching you save that ending Keith!Keith Arkell wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pmGreat save by Luke, with his lone N v his opponent's 2 Bishops. He used the same method I employed at Hastings v GM Lagarde a few years ago - viz you put the N on g2, g7, b2 or b7 and when he turfs you out of one of those you head for another:
https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219
Isn't it strange that in this ending you want your knight to be on N2 - just where you don't want it in the RvN endgame?
Tim Harding
Historian and FIDE Arbiter
Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com
Historian and FIDE Arbiter
Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com
-
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:46 pm
- Location: Dublin, Ireland
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
I remember watching you save that ending Keith!Keith Arkell wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pmGreat save by Luke, with his lone N v his opponent's 2 Bishops. He used the same method I employed at Hastings v GM Lagarde a few years ago - viz you put the N on g2, g7, b2 or b7 and when he turfs you out of one of those you head for another:
https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219
Isn't it strange that in this ending you want your knight to be on N2 - just where you don't want it in the RvN endgame?
Tim Harding
Historian and FIDE Arbiter
Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com
Historian and FIDE Arbiter
Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com
-
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:10 am
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
I hadn't thought of that, Tim! It is still losing, but creates the best practical obstacles for the Bishops, especially as many of the winning lines take more than 50 moves to execute.Tim Harding wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:52 pmI remember watching you save that ending Keith!Keith Arkell wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pmGreat save by Luke, with his lone N v his opponent's 2 Bishops. He used the same method I employed at Hastings v GM Lagarde a few years ago - viz you put the N on g2, g7, b2 or b7 and when he turfs you out of one of those you head for another:
https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219
Isn't it strange that in this ending you want your knight to be on N2 - just where you don't want it in the RvN endgame?
-
- Posts: 8472
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
Thanks, good examples from the old days when top players could really play endings properly, at 24 mph. At least I think that was still the case in 1992.
The Botvinnik ending isn't really that interesting, since I expect both players knew he was comfortably sunk when he went into it ( that's the tablebase talking, not me ).
Timman v Speelman was played remarkably accurately, but was very finely balanced and on a 50 move basis the theoretical win probably did come and go. Why did Speelman resign after 25 moves when White was clearly making progress but the job was not done?
1. Perhaps he was not inclined to seal and come back for yet another session, after Timman had checked the winning plan.
2. Were those the days when there were exceptions to the 50 move rule, and this one was something like 75?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
-
- Posts: 5249
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
- Location: Croydon
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
In my last real job (not chess related), my boss was called John Smith. He was a chess player and a stronger one than Steve Davis.Tim Harding wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:50 pmWhat a shame that in your fake tournament you couldn't have let the winner be the one chess player with the non-fake name: the great snooker champion Steve Davis! (At least he won his first round match.)
-
- Posts: 5249
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
- Location: Croydon
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
I believe that it was long thought to be drawn, until 5 man endings were solved by computer in the mid 1980s.Keith Arkell wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:33 amI hadn't thought of that, Tim! It is still losing, but creates the best practical obstacles for the Bishops, especially as many of the winning lines take more than 50 moves to execute.Tim Harding wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:52 pmI remember watching you save that ending Keith!Keith Arkell wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pmGreat save by Luke, with his lone N v his opponent's 2 Bishops. He used the same method I employed at Hastings v GM Lagarde a few years ago - viz you put the N on g2, g7, b2 or b7 and when he turfs you out of one of those you head for another:
https://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2019-fi ... ane_Luke_J
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1782219
Isn't it strange that in this ending you want your knight to be on N2 - just where you don't want it in the RvN endgame?
Lagarde never reached a position which was winning in less than the remainder of the 50 moves, but he got closer than Yuffa did.
-
- Posts: 5249
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
- Location: Croydon
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
Yes, it was 75 moves at that time.NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:07 amThanks, good examples from the old days when top players could really play endings properly, at 24 mph. At least I think that was still the case in 1992.
The Botvinnik ending isn't really that interesting, since I expect both players knew he was comfortably sunk when he went into it ( that's the tablebase talking, not me ).
Timman v Speelman was played remarkably accurately, but was very finely balanced and on a 50 move basis the theoretical win probably did come and go. Why did Speelman resign after 25 moves when White was clearly making progress but the job was not done?
1. Perhaps he was not inclined to seal and come back for yet another session, after Timman had checked the winning plan.
2. Were those the days when there were exceptions to the 50 move rule, and this one was something like 75?
Hodgson v Agdestein, Hastings 1991 - 1992, was a R+B v R which lasted more than 50 moves, although Agdestein gave up before the end.
(This game really was played in 1991 - 1992, with the first session on 31st December and the second on 1st January.)
https://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=2067778
-
- Posts: 8472
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
I would hazard a guess that neither player allowed this to impact their New Year celebrations.David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:59 am(This game really was played in 1991 - 1992, with the first session on 31st December and the second on 1st January.)https://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=2067778
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.
-
- Posts: 5249
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
- Location: Croydon
Re: World Cup Knockout 2019
David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:59 am(This game really was played in 1991 - 1992, with the first session on 31st December and the second on 1st January.)https://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=2067778
You would guess wrong.NickFaulks wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:24 amI would hazard a guess that neither player allowed this to impact their New Year celebrations.
Hodgson spoke privately to Stewart Reuben and me at the adjournment. Unless he was then lying, which I doubt, he did a considerable amount of work before the second session.
Nowadays, of course, he would not have that opportunity.
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.