“It’s a different bit of paper not the scoresheet so I can make notes on it” was part of Wesley So’s defence IIRCRoger Lancaster wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:55 pm- but not if written on a separate piece of paper.
FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
Absolutely, good points by both.David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:02 pmThe episode was discussed on here at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7319.
I agree with the comments of Ian Thompson and Nick Faulks on Page 2.
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
Luckily I have never yet come across an instance where two players shook hands and then argued as to what the shaking of hands meant. I've heard it happens, though. I accept that chess players are quite capable of being weird and doing weird things.
Well, it's usually resignation. (Especially if its hurled across the room.) Someone can always sort out the live board's misapprehension later. Of course it may be just being clumsy, we've all seen this, but only nine year olds would try to claim this as a resignation. Unless someone's actually seen an adult being a queen down arguing that his opponent resigned instead of accidentally knocking over his king whilst reaching for his bishop. Or his tea. Or scratching his nose.
I think that one is easy. An arbiter is required under the Laws to
I think we'll allow insulin readings to be written on the scoresheet as a special measure. Otherwise the insurance rates might rocket after the bodies piled up.https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018 wrote:take special measures in the interests of disabled players and those who need medical attention,
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
The original post concerned two players simultaneously resigning.
However, most of the subsequent comments concern someone's off hand recollection of their young daughter writing "resigns" on the score-sheet.
Of course, this is an instance the Immutable Law of the Forum. No one ever posts on topic.
It should astonish me that anyone would consider writing "resigns" on their scoresheet to be anything but a resignation, but there we are.
Chess players are not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can ever suppose. "JBS Haldane"
However, most of the subsequent comments concern someone's off hand recollection of their young daughter writing "resigns" on the score-sheet.
Of course, this is an instance the Immutable Law of the Forum. No one ever posts on topic.
It should astonish me that anyone would consider writing "resigns" on their scoresheet to be anything but a resignation, but there we are.
Chess players are not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can ever suppose. "JBS Haldane"
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
Sorry Paul
Although I should reiterate she wrote "0-1" not "resigns"... and that was (ahem) corrected (/ahem) to 1/2 - 1/2
But she won't do that again...
Although I should reiterate she wrote "0-1" not "resigns"... and that was (ahem) corrected (/ahem) to 1/2 - 1/2
But she won't do that again...
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
It's alright. She's forgiven. Kids usually are. It's the supposed grown ups... @_@
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
Paul - that your interesting case is appears to be a junior event means I ought not have commented.
I think the correct actions would have been to laugh, say you cannot both resign, stop the clocks and ask if they both want to continue. But seems other things happened. Explaining the right etiquette is hard.
There are of course local rules to be considered. My last game of 2019 was in a pub where juniors have to leave the bar area by 9pm. We use that to analyse games. We finished at 810 so I was quite keen to analyse with him and his father and offering to buy them both drinks as is custom. We agreed that he had a better way to continue rather than accept a draw offer but also a bit earlier I had a better continuation as analysed by Botvinnik.
At 9 we all went back upstairs with four games still in progress including his younger brother,
I think the correct actions would have been to laugh, say you cannot both resign, stop the clocks and ask if they both want to continue. But seems other things happened. Explaining the right etiquette is hard.
There are of course local rules to be considered. My last game of 2019 was in a pub where juniors have to leave the bar area by 9pm. We use that to analyse games. We finished at 810 so I was quite keen to analyse with him and his father and offering to buy them both drinks as is custom. We agreed that he had a better way to continue rather than accept a draw offer but also a bit earlier I had a better continuation as analysed by Botvinnik.
At 9 we all went back upstairs with four games still in progress including his younger brother,
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
It happened to me. My opponent's flag fell, we shook hands and he filled out the slip to say 0-1 ( he was White ) and handed it in. A few minutes later he informed the arbiting team that he had in fact given checkmate with his final move and the result should be reversed. Which they did!Paul McKeown wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:43 pmLuckily I have never yet come across an instance where two players shook hands and then argued as to what the shaking of hands meant.
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
Well, I suppose that - if he had in fact given checkmate with his final move before [Rumens/Mabbs] his flag fell - that ended the game there and then. What the later shaking of hands indicated would therefore have been irrelevant. Or am I missing something?NickFaulks wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:44 amIt happened to me. My opponent's flag fell, we shook hands and he filled out the slip to say 0-1 ( he was White ) and handed it in. A few minutes later he informed the arbiting team that he had in fact given checkmate with his final move and the result should be reversed. Which they did!Paul McKeown wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:43 pmLuckily I have never yet come across an instance where two players shook hands and then argued as to what the shaking of hands meant.
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
You may be.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:49 pmWell, I suppose that - if he had in fact given checkmate with his final move before [Rumens/Mabbs] his flag fell - that ended the game there and then. What the later shaking of hands indicated would therefore have been irrelevant. Or am I missing something?NickFaulks wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:44 amIt happened to me. My opponent's flag fell, we shook hands and he filled out the slip to say 0-1 ( he was White ) and handed it in. A few minutes later he informed the arbiting team that he had in fact given checkmate with his final move and the result should be reversed. Which they did!Paul McKeown wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:43 pmLuckily I have never yet come across an instance where two players shook hands and then argued as to what the shaking of hands meant.
In Rumens v Mabbs, there was no dispute that the final move was checkmate.
In Nick's case, after he had left the board thinking that he had won, his opponent and the arbiting team subsequently acted as described.
If this is the episode which I think it is, Nick's opponent did make one entirely accurate allegation. He accused Stewart Reuben of not being a Christian.
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
Assuming the game was standard play, in which case there would be a record of the moves, I imagine the arbiters felt impelled to reproduce the moves on the opponent's scoresheet to see if the final move was, in fact, checkmate. Question that next crosses my mind is, if the final move recorded was checkmate, would the arbiters then have requested Nick's scoresheet to ensure that they tallied?David Sedgwick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:48 pmYou may be.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:49 pmWell, I suppose that - if he had in fact given checkmate with his final move before [Rumens/Mabbs] his flag fell - that ended the game there and then. What the later shaking of hands indicated would therefore have been irrelevant. Or am I missing something?NickFaulks wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:44 am
It happened to me. My opponent's flag fell, we shook hands and he filled out the slip to say 0-1 ( he was White ) and handed it in. A few minutes later he informed the arbiting team that he had in fact given checkmate with his final move and the result should be reversed. Which they did!
In Rumens v Mabbs, there was no dispute that the final move was checkmate.
In Nick's case, after he had left the board thinking that he had won, his opponent and the arbiting team subsequently acted as described.
If this is the episode which I think it is, Nick's opponent did make one entirely accurate allegation. He accused Stewart Reuben of not being a Christian.
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
That wouldn't necessarily be so unless there was an increment of at least 30 seconds, or with a shorter or no increment, that the remaining time was at least 5 minutes for the player not having a flagfall.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:37 pmAssuming the game was standard play, in which case there would be a record of the moves
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
I should have said that it was not Standardplay.Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:37 pmAssuming the game was standard play, in which case there would be a record of the moves, I imagine the arbiters felt impelled to reproduce the moves on the opponent's scoresheet to see if the final move was, in fact, checkmate. Question that next crosses my mind is, if the final move recorded was checkmate, would the arbiters then have requested Nick's scoresheet to ensure that they tallied?
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Re: FIDE Laws - An Interesting Case
That does change it a bit. Were the pieces back in the starting position (or in the box) when the claim was made?
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