Cheating in chess

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:05 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:50 am
Matt Mackenzie >Or even drawn without playing any moves at all<
If no moves of chess took place, nowadays there was no game. Both players scorie zero.
I know that, as do you :)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:24 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:50 am
Roger Lancaster . perpetual check<
This term is not in the Laws of Chess. If it is not by repetition, it will always take many moves to demonstrate.
Of course, if 5 fold occurrence has happened, if it happens a further 5 times, the arbiter obviously failed to be aware and the 5 extra moves are irrelevant.
I was aware of that but the colloquial term "perpetual check" said in two words what it would have otherwise taken longer to convey. However, my main point was to question the assessment that "If no moves of chess took place, nowadays there was no game. Both players score zero."

Taking the not totally uncommon situation where the player of the White pieces fails to appear before the default time, and consequently no moves of chess take place, it's not the case that both players score zero. For tournament/match purposes, Black gets a win. For grading purposes, the game did not take place and therefore no score is recorded for either player.

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Joey Stewart
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Joey Stewart » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:47 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:33 pm
Stewart Reuben wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:50 am
The third parties who may have been harmed include: the arbiter, the organiser; the sponsor; the move inputter; the buletin compiler' and anybody who comes on the so-called game in the future.
Speaking as a move inputter, if at the next 4NCL weekend everyone wants to agree a draw in 8 moves, they'd get no complaints from me. Even better if they all play the same 8-move draw, Find and Replace will come in handy.
Personally I wouldn't even bother to input their actual game - just pick some really boring drawing opening like the London system and copy it up to however many moves the players made until the draw. If they have made zero effort to contribute anything worthwhile there is no point clogging up databases with it.
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:15 pm

Joey Stewart wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:47 am
Personally I wouldn't even bother to input their actual game - just pick some really boring drawing opening like the London system and copy it up to however many moves the players made until the draw. If they have made zero effort to contribute anything worthwhile there is no point clogging up databases with it.
And, of course, totally mislead future opponents of the two players concerned - thanks a bunch!

Tim Spanton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Tim Spanton » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:29 am

New post on the Fide site:


RESOLUTION

Suspicions regarding the achievements of Mr. Ihor Kobylianskyi (FIDE ID 14106329) and Mr. Iuri Shkuro (FIDE ID 14108836) at recent rapid and blitz chess tournaments have been reported to the Presidential Board. In order to protect the integrity of the rating list, and the reputations of the players, FIDE hereby resolves as follows:

1. To authorize FIDE Legal Advisor Mr. Aleksandr Martynov and QC Secretary Alex Holowczak to investigate recent achievements of Mr. Ihor Kobylianskyi (FIDE ID 14106329) at rapid and blitz chess tournaments organized after May 2018 and Mr. Iuri Shkuro (FIDE ID 14108836) at blitz chess tournaments organized after November 2014 in order to confirm or disprove compliance with sportsmanship and other FIDE principles by the players.

2. To request FIDE Legal Advisor to provide his recommendations on application of Art. 0.5 of the FIDE Rating Regulations / FIDE Rapid and Blitz Rating Regulations to the tournaments referred to in paragraph 1 of this decision.

3. To hold inactive rapid and blitz ratings of the players specified above until the end of the investigation.

4. To require UCF (Ukranian Chess Federation ) to seek advance written permission from the QC Chairman for the rating of any rapid or blitz tournament in which Mr. Kobylianskyi or Mr. Shkluro is due to play.

5. To bestow the right upon the QC Chairman to withdraw from rating the games of Mr. Kobylianskyi or Mr. Shkluro from a rating file if thought appropriate, whether or not previous permission has been sought by UCF.

6. To support QC in its continuing effort to improve the FIDE Rating Regulations / FIDE Rapid and Blitz Rating Regulations, in particular to avoid accusations from interested parties of poor sportsmanship and questionable ethical practices when registering and submitting tournaments for rating.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:09 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:29 am

Suspicions regarding the achievements of Mr. Ihor Kobylianskyi (FIDE ID 14106329) and Mr. Iuri Shkuro (FIDE ID 14108836) at recent rapid and blitz chess tournaments have been reported to the Presidential Board.

This seems to be about exploiting the 400 point rule in FIIDE rating to gain loads of points from much lower rated players in Rapid and Blitz.

Chris Rice
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:53 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:09 pm
Tim Spanton wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:29 am

Suspicions regarding the achievements of Mr. Ihor Kobylianskyi (FIDE ID 14106329) and Mr. Iuri Shkuro (FIDE ID 14108836) at recent rapid and blitz chess tournaments have been reported to the Presidential Board.

This seems to be about exploiting the 400 point rule in FIDE rating to gain loads of points from much lower rated players in Rapid and Blitz.
Certainly in the Kobylianskyi case there was the issue of him sending in his own results and generally acting with multiple conflicts of interest etc as mentioned in the 400pt rule thread

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:33 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:53 pm
Certainly in the Kobylianskyi case there was the issue of him sending in his own results and generally acting with multiple conflicts of interest etc
Ukraine has a poor reputation. For example from 6 years ago
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5936&p=131296&hili ... gs#p131290

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:41 pm

See also the Chessbase article (published 30/01/2020): Dark times for Ukrainian chess by Ukrainian GM Mikhail Golubev.

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:18 am

I have moved this from another thread because I am very unhappy that comments on cheating are being linked to an individual player. Any comments I make refer to the general problem.
NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:43 pm
I suspect that in many leagues, no matter how suspicious a player's behaviour, it would be considered insufferably rude to ask them whether they had a phone in their pocket.
Nobody agreed or disagreed with this, but I still think it is crucial.

Similarly, an amateur cheater might be put off by a quiet word in the ear from a league official to the effect "you've been rumbled, stop it". How many committees would be willing to support that?

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:45 am

"Similarly, an amateur cheater might be put off by a quiet word in the ear from a league official to the effect "you've been rumbled, stop it". How many committees would be willing to support that?"

I take your point, but you might get an angry response from the player!

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:30 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:43 pm
I suspect that in many leagues, no matter how suspicious a player's behaviour, it would be considered insufferably rude to ask them whether they had a phone in their pocket.
Were a player suspected of this behaviour where I play I think several opposition captains would complain. Chess players being excessively diplomatic not a huge issue in my experience.

I don't think it happens much yet over the board, which is it is why it is a matter of speculation rather than fact. I am viewing the cheating discussion as being about nipping it in the bud, before it gets to the epidemic level in online chess.

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:27 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:45 am
I take your point, but you might get an angry response from the player!
I expect they would feel bound to protest their innocence, but they might stop it anyway. If they said they were so insulted that they would never play in the league again, the job is done.

If they continue to play and nothing changes, you are no worse off than you were before.

Implicit in the above is that you had better be confident of your ground. Paul is taking that as a starting point.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:17 pm

"Implicit in the above is that you had better be confident of your ground. Paul is taking that as a starting point."

Of course - but the usual sort of League officials might hesitate to accuse someone if they expect the response to be a smack in the mouth.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:54 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:43 pm
I suspect that in many leagues, no matter how suspicious a player's behaviour, it would be considered insufferably rude to ask them whether they had a phone in their pocket.
Just so that I'm clear in my mind as to what happens elsewhere, what's the formula for someone arriving at a league match by public transport? What exactly is he or she expected to do with his/her phone?

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