Cheating in chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Nick Grey
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:22 pm

ONEs T HAT can Possi bly?

NickFaulks
Posts: 5954
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:22 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:10 pm
This refers to cheating surely?
All of 2.8 does.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Nick Grey
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:38 pm

In Thames Valley League the reason fpr turning off is to stop use....a

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19080
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:41 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:02 pm

Would you then be happy for the phone to be on but muted, provided that the muting was guaranteed to be effective?
The laws of OTB prohibit external consultation. You could still observe this with a muted phone, but it's simplest to proscribe that the phone be completely off for the duration of the game.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:36 am

Whilst looking for something else, I came across this, which describes itself as "irwin - the protector of lichess from all chess players villainous."

As it's open source code I was left wondering whether it's commonly used by other online chess playing sites and how difficult it would be to set up your own/a publicly available version of it so you could provide it with your own database of games to assess.

NickFaulks
Posts: 5954
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:44 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:36 am
how difficult it would be to set up your own/a publicly available version of it so you could provide it with your own database of games to assess.
Too difficult for me, but I have been puzzled for years that nobody with the requisite skills has done this.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 2668
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:35 am

Irwin seems to rely quite strongly on move times, which isn't going to be remotely as useful for databases of OTB games as it is for online blitz etc.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:38 pm

A 9 rounds online tournament to be played at standard time controls (90 minutes + 30 seconds increment) with quite a lot of prize money at stake, although the prize winners will be determined by a subsequent blitz knockout phase.

Do they really think they can enforce these rules and stop people cheating:

"All players must have a webcam and the possibility of audio activation in their playing devices. Moreover, players have to have an active Skype account in order to communicate with referees or to be contacted by them.

"It is not allowed the presence of more than one player in a room or in a playing area, and no more persons can be in that room or playing area while the game is being played. It is also strictly forbidden to have in the playing room or playing area any other electronical device than the one being used to play.

"All games will be surveilled by Chess.com’s fair play algorithm. They will also be surveilled by arbiters. Furthermore, arbiters will be entitled to use video surveillance of players. Games under video surveillance can be decided both prior to the start of each round, randomly during each round or even by request of a player (arbiters reserve the right to decide in each case). In order to allow video surveillance, players will have to enter a link provided by the organization prior to the start of the round, or when they are asked to (Zoom software will be used for video surveillance).

"A player who fails to let arbiters use that video surveillance (using the player’s webcam), even of the room or playing area he or she is playing at (in order to check if there are other people in the room or area, an electronic device, etc.), may be removed from the tournament immediately.

"Games will be reviewed using Chess.com's fair play review process that may – after arbiters’ additional review – lead to removing a player from the tournament between or in the middle of rounds.

...

"If arbiters need to contact a player during the round they may use Skype to do so. If a player does not allow such communication, he or she may also be withdrawn from the tournament, losing all his or her rights. The Tournament Organization may request identification proof from all participants.

"Players authorize referees to take control of their playing device in order to check if they are running other inadequate software in case they have doubts on this point."


Would anyone with any sense be willing to allow their device to be taken over remotely?

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19080
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:19 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:38 pm
Would anyone with any sense be willing to allow their device to be taken over remotely?
If serious chess is to be played on-line in circumstances where arbiters cannot physically be present, something that replicates over the board mutual observation would seem necessary.

The new 4NCL league may work because many of the players know and trust one another. Away from that trust, how should play be organised?

Richard Bates
Posts: 3123
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Richard Bates » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:37 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:38 pm
A 9 rounds online tournament to be played at standard time controls (90 minutes + 30 seconds increment) with quite a lot of prize money at stake, although the prize winners will be determined by a subsequent blitz knockout phase.

Do they really think they can enforce these rules and stop people cheating:

"All players must have a webcam and the possibility of audio activation in their playing devices. Moreover, players have to have an active Skype account in order to communicate with referees or to be contacted by them.

"It is not allowed the presence of more than one player in a room or in a playing area, and no more persons can be in that room or playing area while the game is being played. It is also strictly forbidden to have in the playing room or playing area any other electronical device than the one being used to play.

"All games will be surveilled by Chess.com’s fair play algorithm. They will also be surveilled by arbiters. Furthermore, arbiters will be entitled to use video surveillance of players. Games under video surveillance can be decided both prior to the start of each round, randomly during each round or even by request of a player (arbiters reserve the right to decide in each case). In order to allow video surveillance, players will have to enter a link provided by the organization prior to the start of the round, or when they are asked to (Zoom software will be used for video surveillance).

"A player who fails to let arbiters use that video surveillance (using the player’s webcam), even of the room or playing area he or she is playing at (in order to check if there are other people in the room or area, an electronic device, etc.), may be removed from the tournament immediately.

"Games will be reviewed using Chess.com's fair play review process that may – after arbiters’ additional review – lead to removing a player from the tournament between or in the middle of rounds.


...

"If arbiters need to contact a player during the round they may use Skype to do so. If a player does not allow such communication, he or she may also be withdrawn from the tournament, losing all his or her rights. The Tournament Organization may request identification proof from all participants.

"Players authorize referees to take control of their playing device in order to check if they are running other inadequate software in case they have doubts on this point."


Would anyone with any sense be willing to allow their device to be taken over remotely?
Do you have to set up a slop bucket in the corner? ;)

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19080
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:47 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:37 pm
Do you have to set up a slop bucket in the corner? ;)
When playing at home with no arbiter present, isn't the Rausis style of cheating straightforward for the unscrupulous, even with video surveillance of the playing chair?

David Sedgwick
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:55 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:38 pm
Games will be reviewed using Chess.com's fair play review process that may – after arbiters’ additional review – lead to removing a player from the tournament between or in the middle of rounds.
One of the features on the new online chess world arising from the lockdowns is that major events seem to take place at very short notice. In this instance, the announcement quoted by Ian was made today and the tournament starts in two days' time. Admittedly, players do not need to make travel and accommodation arrangements, but it's unfortunate if they have no proper opportunity to consider the import of Regulations such as these.

The words which I have emboldened above do seem to indicate a significant concession not offered to Justin Horton. Nevertheless, the overall content of the Regulations, taken in conjunction with Justin's experience, leads me to fear that Chess.com may be somewhat trigger happy in their application. It will need a determined arbiting team if that is not to happen.

I seldom make comments about fellow arbiters on this Forum and on this occasion I can't. The Chief Arbiter is IA Nuno Felipe Andrade. I have to confess that I had not previously heard of him.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:44 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:47 pm
When playing at home with no arbiter present, isn't the Rausis style of cheating straightforward for the unscrupulous, even with video surveillance of the playing chair?
Any form of electronic cheating would seem pretty easy when a physical search of the player and his surroundings isn't possible.

It would also be straightforward for the player to be sitting at a table with their webcam pointing towards them with an accomplice standing in front of the player and behind the webcam. So long as there's a doorway near the accomplice they can then come and go as necessary without being detected.

Mick Norris
Posts: 8280
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:05 pm

Chesstech News Cheaters caught in two online competitions this week
FIDE is looking into eye-tracking as an indicator of forbidden assistance
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19080
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:23 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:05 pm
Chesstech News Cheaters caught in two online competitions this week
Also from your link
Therefore FIDE plans to let all participants sign a clause that they accept to be expelled from a tournament if their play shows a high overlap with engine moves.
I don't see that working in the slightest as it outlaws using pre-prepared theoretical variations.

Post Reply