Mobile Phone problems at local league level.

[Roger de Coverly]

I went for a swim during the second one, simply to relieve the tedium.

That would now be against the Fide Laws of Chess, unless the arbiter had designated the swimming pool part of the playing venue.

12.2


Players are not allowed to leave the ‘playing venue’ without permission from the arbiter. The playing venue is defined as the playing area, rest rooms, refreshment area, area set aside for smoking and other places as designated by the arbiter.

[Anthony Taglione]

Hi Roger,

This was more than 30 years ago when the current paranoia was relatively unknown. Since the whole hotel was advertised as being the venue and nothing was posted to the contrary, as far as anyone was concerned, the whole hotel complex was the venue. The "recent" amendments to the laws of chess were not intended to be applied retroactively. There was no law broken. One might even consider the swimming pool to be an area of refreshment.

Regarding using a phone whilst engaged in a sport, in American football, for example, one will often see players using the telephone on the sidelines. I respect your analogy but don't see that it holds any merit. Being involved in playing a sport and being able to hold a conversation are not mutually exclusive. The only issue is whether one should be able to hold said conversation over a mobile phone. We seem simply to disagree that it should be permissible.

Hi Adam,

Thanks, I think. Seriously, though, I had nothing worth thinking about in the position that I hadn't already thought about and I had to wonder whether my opponent was simply asleep with his eyes open. I needed some kind of distraction and, as you commented, a swim can be rather invigorating. Of course, I had a huge amount of time on my clock and, should he have moved in my absence, my opponent clearly didn't consider a lengthy wait between moves to be of any note. As it happened, he still hadn't moved when I returned.

[Roger de Coverly]

Players (particularly based in the South East) may play in a number of leagues, all of which have different time-controls, which can be confusing. If you start changing the Laws of Chess in every event, it will get a bit silly.

There's already an issue as to whether match captains either collectively or individually have any, some or all of the powers of an independent arbiter. The important one is 10.2 as to what happens when an "unable" claim is made in a quick play finish but it extends downwards to whether a match captain can point out a flag fall when the players have not noticed. At a minimum level you might expect that the captains can be consulted on factual issues such as recording moves with more than 5 minutes remaining.

That's something the ECF or the Chess Arbiters Association have never dared to do - write a set of model rules for an evening league.

[LozCooper]

I had the dilemma in a league match last night where prior to my game starting I had a phone call to say the rest of the team were delayed due to a puncture on the motorway. The opposing team were very easy going and were happy to delay the start from 7.30 to 7.45 but I was conscious that in order to start my game I should switch my phone off and not switch it back on until after the game but that would mean I wouldn't be able to find out if the rest of the team were going to turn up in time. In this case there was no problem because the opposition were flexible enough to allow me to remain in contact with the team and they did, in fact, arrive at 7.50 so no harm was done.

This worked perfectly well due to the cooperation of the other team. Clearly this wouldn't work in a FIDE event because firstly they would have been defaulted at the start time and secondly I wouldn't have dared to switch my phone on once play had started.

[William Metcalfe]

Its not just the south east where players play in multiple leagues with multiple time controls up here in the north east i play in 3 leagues all with differant time controls and if i add in the internal club competition it becomes 4 differant time contrils.
And as i captain 2 teams in differant leagues the first question i always get asked by my team is what time control is this game then lol.

[David Sedgwick]

Surrey have disputes about everything.

There's already an issue as to whether match captains either collectively or individually have any, some or all of the powers of an independent arbiter......At a minimum level you might expect that the captains can be consulted on factual issues such as recording moves with more than 5 minutes remaining.

Roger, you are remarkably prescient at times. This very morning I've received the particulars of a dispute in Surrey concerning almost this exact point.

I'd better not say any more.

[David Sedgwick]

Clearly this wouldn't work in a FIDE event because firstly they would have been defaulted at the start time

If you are indeed referring to a FIDE event such as an Olympiad, then you are of course correct. In an ordinary FIDE rated tournament, organisers remain free to set their own default time. As previously discussed on this Forum, the default time for standardplay events in England is 30 minutes unless an alternative is specified in the regulations for the particular event.

[Phil Neatherway]

I'm still highly amazed that it's considered a reasonable request for anyone to isolate themselves from the outside world for the duration of a game.

It's the chess as (almost) a sport issue. You wouldn't expect to see a mobile phone in use by the players on a football field or a rugby pitch or even a cricket pitch. Non sporting analogies would be that you wouldn't expect someone to hold a conversation during a film, theatre performance or classic music concert.

Roger, you are spot on. I agree 100%.

[Anthony Taglione]

Roger, you are spot on. I agree 100%.

Could you expand on that? I don't mean to put you on the spot but what do you see as so heinous about a player abstracting himself to a comfortable distance from anyone's board and holding a quiet, non-disturbing conversation over a phone? I am assuming that you'd have no objection to the same person going to the refreshment area and chatting with another customer whilst buying a sandwich.

I've yet to see any rationale offered here as to why mobile phones, responsibly used, are viewed so negatively, beyond the suggestions that it could be used as a route to cheating, which applies to any conversation. As someone who grew up without any kind of phone and still sees the mobile, sparingly used, as something quite wondrous, I am mystified by the clearly heartfelt attitudes against them. This seems to go far beyond the 'crime' of distraction.

[Eoin Devane]

Regarding using a phone whilst engaged in a sport, in American football, for example, one will often see players using the telephone on the sidelines. I respect your analogy but don't see that it holds any merit. Being involved in playing a sport and being able to hold a conversation are not mutually exclusive. The only issue is whether one should be able to hold said conversation over a mobile phone. We seem simply to disagree that it should be permissible.

As a turn based game / sport, chess is far more comparable with American Football than with "normal" (Association) Football. And, as Anthony says, you do often see player using a phone on the sidelines during an American Football match. They tend to do this when they are not required to be on the field (e.g. when they are on offence but their team is on defence). One could argue that this is like not having the move in chess. One of the reasons you never see a player in the Premiership using a phone during a game is that there are no such breaks in play which would allow this.

You never see footballers go to the toilet during a game either, but I find it hard to believe that anyone would consider banning this. And arguably going to the toilet provides even more of an opportunity to cheat than does making a phone call.

[Alan Walton]

Hi,

Personally i think people using a mobile phone during a game chess for "ordinary" calls is totally unacceptable, there is too much risk in the cheating element for this to be allowed

Remember, it is still forbidden to discuss the game with anybody whilst still playing (personally or on a phone), and if caught you will forfiet the game

If you are awaiting such a important call it most probably best not to be playing a game of chess, as knowing that call is imminent would be a distraction in its own way

It is a sad state of affairs if having your phone switched off for a couple of hours is that important to people, also the game may only last one hour and after finishing you can switch the phone back on (leaving it on silent), and pick up calls as much as you like

Alan

[Adam Raoof]

I wonder; is it ok for me to use a laptop with a wireless connection whilst I am playing my game to receive important emails, and have a chat with my friends - not about my game, of course... actually I don't mean a laptop, that would be daft - I meant a Blackberry... or would an iPhone be acceptable?

[Anthony Taglione]

Needing to make a call might not be such a devastating thing that one need stay away from the match. Equally, the need for one's attention might have come up at such short notice that there is no possibility of the captain finding a replacement.

One might simply have left the grill on and wish to phone home to tell one's spouse to turn it off. One might wish to give her a call before she goes to bed to wish her a Happy Birthday. I really don't draw the distinction between important and trivial calls, however.

This extreme concern about cheating is troubling. Has the chess world become so rife with people attempting to cheat by reading out a position over the phone and awaiting some returned analysis that it warrants a witch-hunt against responsible use of the telephone? I might be old fashioned in this but I see it as no one's business but my own how I spend my time between moves, so long as I am not causing any distraction to other players nor, of course, cheating.

It's merely a phone and a conversation is typically merely a conversation. I don't see the pertinence of the fact that I'm having a match at the time.

[Alan Walton]

It amazes me that discussions like this are still going on.

We should just leave it at all electronic devices (phones, computers, pda's, personal stereo etc) have to be turned off during the game (which are the rules), if you are scared of a noise coming from a switched off phone, then simply remove the battery before hand

From what I remember you can get our German friend on your pda nowadays

The rule is there specifically for assistance/cheating and not actually for the distraction of the phone going off

Alan

[Anthony Taglione]

I wonder; is it ok for me to use a laptop with a wireless connection whilst I am playing my game to receive important emails, and have a chat with my friends - not about my game, of course... actually I don't mean a laptop, that would be daft - I meant a Blackberry... or would an iPhone be acceptable?

All fine questions, Adam. Maybe that's worth a whole thread to itself?