4NCL Online
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Re: 4NCL Online
There's a new statement about banned players at the 4NCL website.
Given that a ban by lichess provoked a withdrawal by a division 1 team, I feel the tone of the comments is self congratulatory. The team withdrawal isn't mentioned, nor are what sanctions, if any, are applied to team results when players are excluded.
(edit lichess not chess.com - that was the Briitsh Blitz)
Given that a ban by lichess provoked a withdrawal by a division 1 team, I feel the tone of the comments is self congratulatory. The team withdrawal isn't mentioned, nor are what sanctions, if any, are applied to team results when players are excluded.
(edit lichess not chess.com - that was the Briitsh Blitz)
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Thu May 14, 2020 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4NCL Online
Lichess - not chess.com?Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:38 amThere's a new statement about banned players at the 4NCL website.
Given that a ban by chess.com provoked a withdrawal by a division 1 team, I feel the tone of the comments is self congratulatory. The team withdrawal isn't mentioned, nor are what sanctions, if any, are applied to team results when players are excluded.
Re: 4NCL Online
Indeed there is.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:38 amThere's a new statement about banned players at the 4NCL website
And at risk of taking us way, way, off-topic, I draw general attention to the delightful paragraphs at the end of the statement. One of my players (ie Spirit of Atticus) was on the receiving end of collegiate goodsportsmanship in a recent game, probably the incident referred to in the first example. It's so uplifting when things like this happen - there's far more unmarked generosity out there than malice.
The evil that men do lives after them
The good is oft interred with their bones
PS if you visit the 4NCL webpage, check the 'tweet' sidebar. Under 'Liverpool City Council', you find a video clip by a local Councillor. Absolutely no idea at all what it's doing there, but my wife, Laura, is hugely amused - because it's her!
Re: 4NCL Online
<ripple of applause and sound of flashbulbs popping>JustinHorton wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 3:20 pm
Really I don't want to make everything about myself, but my experience does serve as a pretty good example...
That could be the start of an acceptance speech at the Oscars.
While it is undoubtedly the case that Justin's performances at online theatres in this genre have rivalled those of Henry Fonda in The Wrong Man and Twelve Angry Men I believe that he is fated to have to wait until he has mellowed - as Fonda did with On Golden Pond - to really know how to act instead of just grandstanding.
Edit - with apologies to the Prof for so rudely butting in after his sensational post, above.
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Re: 4NCL Online
The online meeting on Tuesday 26th May entitled Can Online Chess Overcome Cheating? seems timely bringing together some of the key components: sports regulation, playing platforms, statistical software, players, captains.
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Re: 4NCL Online
From the websiteJohn Foley wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 3:54 pmThe online meeting on Tuesday 26th May entitled Can Online Chess Overcome Cheating?
Aren't they missing a question? Start with "What is cheating" or "What behaviour is classified as cheating".In this webinar, experts discuss the issues around cheating.
How is cheating detected?
Some of the online servers appear to have curious ideas on this such as "playing good moves whilst in possession of a low rating".
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Re: 4NCL Online
Looks like a pretty good listIn this webinar, experts discuss the issues around cheating.
How is cheating detected?
How transparent must the process be?
How can detection be automated?
What is sufficient evidence of computer assistance?
What behaviour is suspicious?
What to do if you suspect your opponent of cheating?
What are the safeguards against false accusations?
What are the appeal processes?
What if someone is not satisfied with the appeal outcome?
What if there is not an appeal process?
What sort of enforcement measures are fair?
Does online chess need an ombudsman?
Any postings on here represent my personal views
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Re: 4NCL Online
I have signed upMick Norris wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 4:28 pmIn this webinar, experts discuss the issues around cheating.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!
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Re: 4NCL Online
Let us know how it goes please Adam
Any postings on here represent my personal views
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Re: 4NCL Online
Mick Norris wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 4:28 pmIn this webinar, experts discuss the issues around cheating.
So have I.
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Re: 4NCL Online
I signed up because you were down as one of the speakersDavid Sedgwick wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 8:16 pmMick Norris wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 4:28 pmIn this webinar, experts discuss the issues around cheating.So have I.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!
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Re: 4NCL Online
Is there a list of speakers? I only saw:
ChessTech listing wrote:Hosted by Stefan Löffler, Editor, ChessTech
Part One: One-on-one interviews with leading figures to cover a range of relevant aspects.
Salomėja Zaksaitė, FIDE Anti-Cheating Commission
Ken Regan, University at Buffalo, New York
Part Two: Questions and Answers from the audience.
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Re: 4NCL Online
I may have confused a list of attendees with a list of speakers, as I am now on the listAngus French wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 9:31 pmIs there a list of speakers? I only saw:
ChessTech listing wrote:Hosted by Stefan Löffler, Editor, ChessTech
Part One: One-on-one interviews with leading figures to cover a range of relevant aspects.
Salomėja Zaksaitė, FIDE Anti-Cheating Commission
Ken Regan, University at Buffalo, New York
Part Two: Questions and Answers from the audience.
Adam Raoof IA, IO
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!
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Re: 4NCL Online
As far as I know they are the only two speakers. I am certainly not speaking, although I may try to ask a question.Angus French wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 9:31 pmIs there a list of speakers? I only saw:
ChessTech listing wrote:Hosted by Stefan Löffler, Editor, ChessTech
Part One: One-on-one interviews with leading figures to cover a range of relevant aspects.
Salomėja Zaksaitė, FIDE Anti-Cheating Commission
Ken Regan, University at Buffalo, New York
Part Two: Questions and Answers from the audience.
Edit: The link at https://www.tickettailor.com/events/chessplus/376220/ now lists a third confirmed speaker and a possible fourth speaker - from Lichess.
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Re: 4NCL Online
This is very good evidence if sample supports it- and in fact you can get rid of the second half of that sentence (even Carlsen blunders, and is cheating if he doesn't over a much larger sample). If a 1900 players make 4 blunders every 20 moves, and then we have has a string of games without a blunder, you can be as certain as can be of engine assistance (or consultation with better players).Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 4:09 pmSome of the online servers appear to have curious ideas on this such as "playing good moves whilst in possession of a low rating".
The fact remains it's possible to brand people as cheats with a lower false positive rate than the criminal justice system based on moves alone.
The other point is valid though- it sucks that sites are silent on their methods or evidence discovered. I wonder if we can have something similar to expert witnesses- where the secret detection methods aren't revealed, but evidence can still be used- as it's very difficult to check outside of the inner workings of these sites.