A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 3925
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:19 pm

I expect a PxP ep could set up multiple checks.

I was also pondering over the previous law, white has Ke1, Ra2 and h1, Pe2, Black has Kc1, Rg8, Nh3, Bc5, so you go 0-0 mate, as the three checks didn't count.

User avatar
Rewan Demontay
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Rewan Demontay » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:25 am

A quadruple check and beyond is easily feasible. The challenge is to do it in a pleasing manner similar to how the 1988 problem demonstrates.
Do you know, or wish to know, anything unusual about chess? Feel free to contact me!

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 1710
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:11 am

Can you think of examples.

User avatar
Rewan Demontay
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Rewan Demontay » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:50 am

MJMcCready wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:11 am
Can you think of examples.
Yes, I can. It’s actually not all that hard to do it, at least for me anyway. Here is a problem that I believe that is at least semi-pleasing.

Checkmate In 4 Moves
Do you know, or wish to know, anything unusual about chess? Feel free to contact me!

Jonathan Bryant
Posts: 3245
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:58 pm

The Robert Norman letter published in CHESS that was mentioned on page 1 of this thread can be seen here:-

https://twitter.com/berlin_endgame/stat ... 55778?s=21


Bonus item: that letters page also includes correspondence from a 9 year old James Vigus

User avatar
Rewan Demontay
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Rewan Demontay » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:10 pm

Many thanks for a view of the original publication Jonathan!
Do you know, or wish to know, anything unusual about chess? Feel free to contact me!

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3450
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)
Contact:

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:28 pm

Triple (+++) and quadruple check (++++) exist quite legitimately in xiangqi.

The pao (cannon) is a rook, except that it must leap linearly over a piece to capture. So if it is behind e.g. a chariot (moves like a rook, captures like a rook), it can be giving check, just as the chariot in front of it is. So a check by a ma (horse) moving from in front of a chariot (a discovered check) in front of a cannon is in fact a triple check.

You can also get triple check by chariot moving to give check in front of two horses which are now both giving discovered checks.

A quadruple check by two horses, a chariot and a cannon is also possible.

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3450
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)
Contact:

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:31 pm

I've heard that triple check is legitimate in cylindrical chess, although I can't think of a position at the moment.

Jonathan Bryant
Posts: 3245
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:56 pm

Rewan Demontay wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:10 pm
Many thanks for a view of the original publication Jonathan!
No problem.

I know you can post images directly on the forum but I don’t know how you do it from a tweet. If anybody can show me the way forward I’ll save everybody a mouse click.

User avatar
Rewan Demontay
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Rewan Demontay » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:36 pm

I forget to mention before that there is actually a chess variant called "Bosma Chess" that was created in 1993 by R. Bosma. The Dutch problemsit also noticed the wording of the FIDE laws, so he meshed into fairy chess. In Bosma chess, a king is not in check if it is attacked three or more times. I must thank "The Chess Variant Pages" for this valueable information: https://www.chessvariants.com/problems.dir/bosma.html

An example problem is given. Try to solve it! If you can't the solution is in the linked page.

Henk Le Grand, 1st Price 151th Thematoernooi Probleemblad 1993, Mate In 2 Moves
Do you know, or wish to know, anything unusual about chess? Feel free to contact me!

User avatar
Rewan Demontay
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Rewan Demontay » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:00 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:19 pm
I expect a PxP ep could set up multiple checks.

I was also pondering over the previous law, white has Ke1, Ra2 and h1, Pe2, Black has Kc1, Rg8, Nh3, Bc5, so you go 0-0 mate, as the three checks didn't count.
An en passant capture that leads to triple check is ineed not too hard to set up as you suggested.

Checkmate In 2 Moves



Also, kings cannot be next to one another since that would be putting yourself in check. However, if triple check means that you're not attacked, means you are technically able to do it.

Mate In 1
Last edited by Rewan Demontay on Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:09 am, edited 4 times in total.
Do you know, or wish to know, anything unusual about chess? Feel free to contact me!

David Sedgwick
Posts: 4060
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:18 am

Rewan Demontay wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:00 pm
An en passant capture that leads to triple check is ineed not too hard to set up as you suggested.

Checkmate In 2 Moves

I prefer that to Robert Norman's study.

User avatar
Rewan Demontay
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Rewan Demontay » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:21 am

What's so preferable about it?
Do you know, or wish to know, anything unusual about chess? Feel free to contact me!

David Sedgwick
Posts: 4060
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:29 am

Rewan Demontay wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:21 am
What's so preferable about it?
It demonstrates the idea more economically.

User avatar
Rewan Demontay
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Re: A Former Loophole-The “Legal” Triple Check

Post by Rewan Demontay » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:37 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:29 am
Rewan Demontay wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:21 am
What's so preferable about it?
It demonstrates the idea more economically.
Norman's study is more PIECE economic, but I presume you mean economic timewise? The mate in two could also be considered more economic clarity wise, since one movers are too easy to do.
Last edited by Rewan Demontay on Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Do you know, or wish to know, anything unusual about chess? Feel free to contact me!

Post Reply