Cheating in chess

[Roger Lancaster]

It appears that, following complaints [including to FIDE] that their legend "This player uses chess computer assistance" was defamatory, Lichess have amended the wording [in all cases, as far as I can see] to "This account violated the Lichess Terms of Service".

[NickFaulks]

It appears that, following complaints [including to FIDE] that their legend "This player uses chess computer assistance" was defamatory, Lichess have amended the wording [in all cases, as far as I can see] to "This account violated the Lichess Terms of Service".

That sounds like progress. Not enough, but it's a start.

[John Reyes]

I see Adam Raoof used Tornelo and used Zoom and that does work from what I seen so far to stop cheats

[Chris Rice]

Interesting story here. From what I could make out it seems Mariano was thrown out because he beat GMs or at least one much higher rated player by using a prepared line that he had worked on and had played in previous games. This is something that Roger De Coverly has repeatedly said that players of any standard could do and would lead to allegations of cheating. Seems like justice has been done in this matter and I wonder therefore whether it might be possible to use this as a precedent that FIDE could fashion into a formal appeal process for online chess playing arenas.

"The National Chess Federation of the Philippines on Thursday lifted the three-month ban on Nelson Mariano III, allowing the FIDE Master to resume his campaign in NCFP-organized tournaments.

Acting on chess portal Lichess’ charge that he had used computer assistance during the recent Battle of the Grandmasters qualifier, which he topped, the NCFP slapped Mariano a three-month suspension, depriving him of a spot in the just-concluded Battle of GMs finals.

But Mariano appealed his case to the local chess body, debunking claims of him using a computer engine to boost his stock and maintaining his superb performance was a product of solid preparation.

The NCFP reviewed his record and past games and found the appeal creditable.

“In the matter of the written appeal of FM Nelson Mariano III addressed to the NCFP chairman and president (Butch Pichay) praying that the three-month band imposed by the chess body be lifted, and after looking at his games as well as his previous games in the opening lines that he played, the NCFP finds the appeal to be meritorious,” said the NCFP in a statement.

“Accordingly, the three-month ban on him is hereby lifted immediately,” it added."

[John Swain]

Interesting story here. From what I could make out it seems Mariano was thrown out because he beat GMs or at least one much higher rated player by using a prepared line that he had worked on and had played in previous games. This is something that Roger De Coverly has repeatedly said that players of any standard could do and would lead to allegations of cheating. Seems like justice has been done in this matter and I wonder therefore whether it might be possible to use this as a precedent that FIDE could fashion into a formal appeal process for online chess playing arenas.

"The National Chess Federation of the Philippines on Thursday lifted the three-month ban on Nelson Mariano III, allowing the FIDE Master to resume his campaign in NCFP-organized tournaments.

Acting on chess portal Lichess’ charge that he had used computer assistance during the recent Battle of the Grandmasters qualifier, which he topped, the NCFP slapped Mariano a three-month suspension, depriving him of a spot in the just-concluded Battle of GMs finals.

But Mariano appealed his case to the local chess body, debunking claims of him using a computer engine to boost his stock and maintaining his superb performance was a product of solid preparation.

The NCFP reviewed his record and past games and found the appeal creditable.

“In the matter of the written appeal of FM Nelson Mariano III addressed to the NCFP chairman and president (Butch Pichay) praying that the three-month band imposed by the chess body be lifted, and after looking at his games as well as his previous games in the opening lines that he played, the NCFP finds the appeal to be meritorious,” said the NCFP in a statement.

“Accordingly, the three-month ban on him is hereby lifted immediately,” it added."

This is an interesting case. However, it doesn't state whether, despite the exoneration from the player's Federation, any ban from Lichess (following their initial charge that computer assistance had been used) was also overturned.

[Roger Lancaster]

This is an interesting case. However, it doesn't state whether, despite the exoneration from the player's Federation, any ban from Lichess (following their initial charge that computer assistance had been used) was also overturned.

I don't think many people are concerned by Lichess decisions as such [it's hard to see anything preventing someone from opening a new Lichess account] but many are worried that Lichess decisions are treated as 100% reliable by reputable chess organisations and so result - as was initially the case here - in bans from a wider range of events. I don't doubt that Lichess decisions are right in the majority of cases but what's at issue is the size of the minority. And national chess federations are unlikely to want to get involved other than in high-profile cases such as Senor Mariano.

[Roger de Coverly]

I don't doubt that Lichess decisions are right in the majority of cases but what's at issue is the size of the minority.

lichess detected the use of chess engines in the play, presumably mostly in the opening and early middle game. What they don't and cannot know is whether such use took place before the game or during the game.

[JustinHorton]

Senor Mariano

I don't think this is right, since English rather than Spanish is used in the Phillipines: names are Spanish in form, having been acquired during the three hundred years of Spanish rule, but when that rule was followed by a long US occupation, Spanish was usurped by English as an official language. However, although I'm sure it's not Señor, it's not at all clear to me that Filipinos generally use the term "Mister" followed by the surname (or first surname, I guess) in the way that we do. Further information is welcomed.

[Roger Lancaster]

Senor Mariano

I don't think this is right, since English rather than Spanish is used in the Phillipines: names are Spanish in form, having been acquired during the three hundred years of Spanish rule, but when that rule was followed by a long US occupation, Spanish was usurped by English as an official language. However, although I'm sure it's not Señor, it's not at all clear to me that Filipinos generally use the term "Mister" followed by the surname (or first surname, I guess) in the way that we do. Further information is welcomed.

I consider myself duly chastised and, in common with Justin, await education from better-informed members of the forum.

[Roger Lancaster]

I don't doubt that Lichess decisions are right in the majority of cases but what's at issue is the size of the minority.

lichess detected the use of chess engines in the play, presumably mostly in the opening and early middle game. What they don't and cannot know is whether such use took place before the game or during the game.

To maybe expand on this point, I recall playing an over-the-board [classical] game several years ago repeating the same 26 moves that had been played in the previous year's British Championship against the same opponent, then shaking hands on a draw by perpetual check after little more than 20 minutes play. If that game had been played online, I rather think the Lichess program [or Chess.com, for that matter] would have found it suspicious that both players were able to rattle off such high-quality moves at such high speed.

[MartinCarpenter]

This shouldn't be such a problem though? Its another reasons why you wait for a half decent sample of games before doing anything.

1 game in deep preparation is quite possible, even say 3 out of 6 is going to be incredibly rare & you really want more data than that.

[Roger de Coverly]

This shouldn't be such a problem though? Its another reasons why you wait for a half decent sample of games before doing anything.

Empirical evidence suggests that lichess and chess.com don't wait.

[Adam Raoof]

This shouldn't be such a problem though? Its another reasons why you wait for a half decent sample of games before doing anything.

Empirical evidence suggests that lichess and chess.com don't wait.

Where is the empirical evidence for this?

[John Swain]

This shouldn't be such a problem though? Its another reasons why you wait for a half decent sample of games before doing anything.

Empirical evidence suggests that lichess and chess.com don't wait.

Where is the empirical evidence for this?

Yesterday's UK Chess Challenge Gigafinal (the first of two) run on Lichess has already labelled one highly-ranked competitor in each of the Under 12 Boys, Under 12 Girls and Under 14s as "This account violated the Lichess terms of Service". None are so labelled as yet in the Under 18s. These are players who qualified without apparent problems from Megafinals, but then the hurdle was far less (3 or 3.5/6, rather than 5.5 or 6/7).

See:

https://lichess.org/swiss/Dhw2gWEH
https://lichess.org/swiss/NvQLKDMg
https://lichess.org/swiss/BcY6WUbX
https://lichess.org/swiss/QdwFYdGq

[Adam Raoof]

Empirical evidence suggests that lichess and chess.com don't wait.

Where is the empirical evidence for this?

Yesterday's UK Chess Challenge Gigafinal (the first of two) run on Lichess has already labelled one highly-ranked competitor in each of the Under 12 Boys, Under 12 Girls and Under 14s as "This account violated the Lichess terms of Service". None are so labelled as yet in the Under 18s. These are players who qualified without apparent problems from Megafinals, but then the hurdle was far less (3 or 3.5/6, rather than 5.5 or 6/7).

See:

https://lichess.org/swiss/Dhw2gWEH
https://lichess.org/swiss/NvQLKDMg
https://lichess.org/swiss/BcY6WUbX
https://lichess.org/swiss/QdwFYdGq

This is not evidence that lichess does not wait for a decent sample before banning players based on assistance. These are based on 7 games, which is very decent.