4NCL Online

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Ian Thompson
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Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:22 pm

Neil Graham wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:23 pm
If the sum total of this is that anyone found out under the current rules merely disappears under a cloak of anonymity to subsequently reappear at some later date under some new pseudonym this is really giving the more unscrupulous a "Cheat's Charter".
That's not possible in the Online 4NCL because players' real names are known to the organisers, nor would it be with any other event using real names. If the 4NCL has banned a player for a period of time it doesn't matter how many lichess IDs they have. They'd have to play under a false name as well.

LawrenceCooper
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:29 am

215 teams registered for season 2: http://www.4ncl.co.uk/data/online_teams_2.htm

Mick Norris
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Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:22 am

That's up from 184 last time; there must be quite a few new teams then, especially as some of the existing teams haven't re-entered
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Paul Cooksey
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by Paul Cooksey » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:22 pm

2 Maidenhead and a Maidenhead Juniors this year for example.

I'm not organising, but I think fair to say if you want to play online, then 4NCL well organised and small team sizes help.

Anti-cheating is a problem; some people will not want to play online, including me. But some people do.

Tim Spanton
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:35 am

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by Tim Spanton » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:46 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:22 pm
2 Maidenhead and a Maidenhead Juniors this year for example.

I'm not organising, but I think fair to say if you want to play online, then 4NCL well organised and small team sizes help.

Anti-cheating is a problem; some people will not want to play online, including me. But some people do.
Actually, the problem is cheating, not anti-cheating ...

Paul Cooksey
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Re: 4NCL Online

Post by Paul Cooksey » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:12 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:46 pm
Actually, the problem is cheating, not anti-cheating ...
as a root cause, sure. But it is lack of trust in the latter that stops me entering. If you play a cheat, you lose a game. If you are branded a cheat, much more damaging.

Tim Spanton
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:35 am

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by Tim Spanton » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:29 pm

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:12 pm
Tim Spanton wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:46 pm
Actually, the problem is cheating, not anti-cheating ...
as a root cause, sure. But it is lack of trust in the latter that stops me entering. If you play a cheat, you lose a game. If you are branded a cheat, much more damaging.
Fair enough - I missed the point of your post. Either way, online is not for me either (except for correspondence chess where you can use engines)

David Sedgwick
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Location: Croydon

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:08 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:29 am
215 teams registered for season 2: http://www.4ncl.co.uk/data/online_teams_2.htm
Mick Norris wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:22 am
That's up from 184 last time; there must be quite a few new teams then, especially as some of the existing teams haven't re-entered

A 17% increase.

My central prediction was a 20% drop. I understand that the organisers thought that it might be greater.

Those of us, including me, who campaigned hard behind the scenes for a change in the ECF and the 4NCl Rules and Regulations can take a quiet satisfaction from the outcome of our efforts.

Those who stormed out in a huff must decide for themselves what if anything they achieved.

NickFaulks
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:45 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:08 pm
Those of us, including me, who campaigned hard behind the scenes for a change in the ECF and the 4NCl Rules and Regulations can take a quiet satisfaction
Quiet?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Roger Lancaster
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by Roger Lancaster » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:32 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:08 pm

A 17% increase.

My central prediction was a 20% drop. I understand that the organisers thought that it might be greater.

Those of us, including me, who campaigned hard behind the scenes for a change in the ECF and the 4NCl Rules and Regulations can take a quiet satisfaction from the outcome of our efforts.

Those who stormed out in a huff must decide for themselves what if anything they achieved.
Curiously, exactly the opposite outcome to the Junior 4NCL where the organisers seem to have expected an increase but actual entries were well down. I find the contrast puzzling, as I suspect do the organisers. Any theories?

Tim Spanton
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:35 am

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by Tim Spanton » Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:44 am

Not enough undisqualified juniors left to make up a team?

Paul Cooksey
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by Paul Cooksey » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:31 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:08 pm
Those of us, including me, who campaigned hard behind the scenes for a change in the ECF and the 4NCl Rules and Regulations can take a quiet satisfaction
David - can you be specific about what has been changed and why? I have to admit I missed this entirely.

Matthew Turner
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Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by Matthew Turner » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:54 am

Paul,
There is a much more robust appeals procedure for season 2. If a player is flagged by Lichess and doesn't have a high Z score on the Regan test, they will be presumed innocent on appeal. In my opinion, the chance of a false positive being allowed to stand in season 2 is way beyond the threshold for reasonable doubt in a criminal court case.

NickFaulks
Posts: 5948
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:10 am

It isn't clear to me how that helps much, but we should let David reply for himself.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 5327
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: 4NCL Online

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:19 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:29 am
215 teams registered for season 2: http://www.4ncl.co.uk/data/online_teams_2.htm
Now up to 218 so entries still being accepted? http://www.4ncl.co.uk/data/online_teams_2.htm

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