Chess history trivia

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
Ian Thompson
Posts: 2666
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:17 pm

John Saunders wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:08 pm
I was quite surprised when I stumbled on this curiosity. Was Hartston known for his strength with Black?
I'm sure I read a long time ago a report observing that the England teams of the 70's/80's scored better with Black than with White. It made derogatory comments about their knowledge of opening theory and poor choices of white openings.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 4188
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:17 pm

The U-11 from 1975 is interesting -I recognize about 10 names from that, but not the winner. (Apologies if I should remember...)

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 3574
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:25 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:17 pm
John Saunders wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:08 pm
I was quite surprised when I stumbled on this curiosity. Was Hartston known for his strength with Black?
I'm sure I read a long time ago a report observing that the England teams of the 70's/80's scored better with Black than with White. It made derogatory comments about their knowledge of opening theory and poor choices of white openings.
Well that had certainly ended by the 1984 Olympiad, when John Nunn made a stratospheric score whilst having White in nearly every game.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

User avatar
John Saunders
Posts: 1373
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:10 pm
Location: Kingston-upon-Thames
Contact:

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by John Saunders » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:49 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:17 pm
The U-11 from 1975 is interesting -I recognize about 10 names from that, but not the winner. (Apologies if I should remember...)
I played him once at the 1977 LARA Open when he outplayed me in the opening but I (as Black) managed to cheapo him, as was typical of my experience as a hacker coming up against booked-up juniors. No sign of him playing much after that from what I can see - bad results against me often seem to trigger retirements from active play, RDK being a case in point. I found something about Neale Walford online (with a photo) here. Evidently concentrating on his professional career, the sensible fellow.
Personal Twitter @johnchess
Personal Website https://www.saund.org.uk
Britbase https://www.britbase.info

Simon Brown
Posts: 748
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:38 pm
Location: Sevenoaks, Kent, if not in Costa Calida, Spain

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Simon Brown » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:17 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:17 pm
The U-11 from 1975 is interesting -I recognize about 10 names from that, but not the winner. (Apologies if I should remember...)
I remember that one for a number of reasons. First, my brother (JA) drew with Nigel Short in an early round - I have the game score somewhere. Second, the Kings, Andrews and Browns rented a big house and, I believe after Leonard asked, we looked after a young player we didn't know at the time, who had a habit of disappearing to the sea front by himself and loved the amusement arcades. He was from Yorkshire and his family moved to Morecambe not much later. Ian Wells.

Nick Ivell
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Nick Ivell » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:32 pm

I don't think Hartston was particularly known for his prowess with Black. It's just that at Morecambe he hit a rich vein of form with Black - I remember it, because I was there.

The U-14 took place in the morning, giving me lots of time to watch the titled players in the afternoon.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 4188
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:43 pm

"bad results against me often seem to trigger retirements from active play, "

Luckily, I didn't react like that!

Neale Walford has obviously found something useful to do.

It is interesting to look at old junior results, that one had loads of names I recognized - others regrettably all seem to have stopped playing.

And Simon's memory was good to read, tinged with inevitable sadness of course.

User avatar
John Saunders
Posts: 1373
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:10 pm
Location: Kingston-upon-Thames
Contact:

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by John Saunders » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:22 am

I'm glad people enjoy browsing the crosstables and results I post on BritBase. It's a Sisyphean task I've set myself but, as well as game scores, I'm now trying to gather together all the names of people who played in all sections of British Championships over the years, and I'm trying to expand them into forenames and surnames rather than the traditional initials and surnames published in federation yearbooks and national magazines. I've already had some invaluable help with this from people such as Brian Denman and Paul Georghiou and I would welcome more assistance from forum readers who can supply more names, or perhaps correct the ones I've got wrong. The best way to navigate the pages is starting at the page with the list of champions and then clicking on the year in the second column of the table. As you can see, I've got something for all years up to 1991, with the years 1992 to 2003 still to go.
Personal Twitter @johnchess
Personal Website https://www.saund.org.uk
Britbase https://www.britbase.info

Joseph Conlon
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:18 pm

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Joseph Conlon » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:51 pm

John - have sent you an email with various full names from U9/U10/U11 in the late 1980s.

User avatar
John Saunders
Posts: 1373
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:10 pm
Location: Kingston-upon-Thames
Contact:

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by John Saunders » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:17 pm

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:51 pm
John - have sent you an email with various full names from U9/U10/U11 in the late 1980s.
Thanks, Joe. Thank you for your info which I have applied to the relevant files. Thanks also to others who have responded.

I've discovered that the online grading list has a longer reach back into the past than I had expected. As a result, I've been able to make use of it to discover full names for most players who took part in subsidiary events at the British Championships of the early 1990s. The remaining snag is where players have very common surnames. This is a particular difficulty with the results of the 1992 Championship (which I'm working on at the moment). The Yearbook gave a full list of competitors in all sections but for the most part just their first initial and surname, with only the prize-winners having additional info about their home town/club. This isn't a problem where the surname is unusual but becomes problematic where the name is, say, A. Smith and the grading list inevitably offers plausible alternatives. (I've personally known at least four competition chess players with that name, and I'm sure other forum members will easily 'see' my four A. Smiths and 'raise' me a couple more.) So I would still appreciate some help with those.

For the longer term, any forum members thinking of starting a family - can I ask you, please, to take care when choosing names for your offspring. In particular, try to avoid giving them the same first initial as your own forename, or that of their siblings or any other chess-playing members of the family. This will be a great boon to a future generation of chess writers, graders and archivists, and, if you think about it, might also avoid accidental damage to your own grade as your offspring begin their chess careers. I thank you...
Personal Twitter @johnchess
Personal Website https://www.saund.org.uk
Britbase https://www.britbase.info

Paul Habershon
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:51 pm

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Paul Habershon » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:53 pm

John Saunders wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:17 pm

For the longer term, any forum members thinking of starting a family - can I ask you, please, to take care when choosing names for your offspring. In particular, try to avoid giving them the same first initial as your own forename, or that of their siblings or any other chess-playing members of the family..
And for other reasons. I have never moved my bank account from where it was first opened when I was 18 and still living with my parents. Halfway through my working career my monthly salary was once paid into the account of my father, Peter, - same initial.
.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 4188
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:23 am

"Halfway through my working career my monthly salary was once paid into the account of my father, Peter, - same initial."

If it's any consolation, Midland once did that to me, and my father's name was Ivan...

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 4138
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:36 am

John will be pleased to know that my son's name is very distinguishable. So much so, in fact, that he may be the only person in the world with his surname.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2666
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:16 am

Several chess history questions have appeared in the Dorset CCA Daily Quiz in the last few days:

1. How many times has England won a medal at the Chess Olympiads?
2. In which century was castling changed to one move?
3. How many times has the UK hosted the Chess Olympiad?

John Upham
Posts: 5047
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: Chess history trivia

Post by John Upham » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:42 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:16 am
Several chess history questions have appeared in the Dorset CCA Daily Quiz in the last few days:

2. In which century was castling changed to one move?
According to Hooper & Whyld :

"Lucena shows modern castling in two moves: 1 e4
e5 2 NI3 Nc6 3Bc4Bc5 4d3Nf6 5h3d6 6Bb5
a6 7 Ra4 Rf8 8 Nc3 Kg8 (the leap) 9 Bc3 Bxc3
It) fxe3 h6 11 Gd2 Qe7 12 Rdl Be6, and White
makes a leap 13 Kcl. By the end of the 16th
century castling was firmly established as a single
move
, but there were 16 versions: Kfl & Ret, Kgl
Sc Re 1, Kg 1 & Rfl, Khl Sc Ret, Khl &Rfl,Khl
Sc Rgl, and ten queen's side permutations. There
were also regional variations. Sometimes castling
was forbidden if as a consequence the rook would
attack an enemy man, or if the king had been in
check previously. Sometimes a king could pass
over a square attacked by an enemy man, or a
player could castle if his king had been moved but
not checked. Sometimes the g- or h-pawn could be
moved at the same time. Ruy lofez, in his book of
1561, quoted castling as it is now played and this
became generally established by the 17th century
except in Italy, where many versions of castling
remained in use until the early 20th century. This
Tree castling 5 aroused the sharp tongue of van der
linde —- l free—as in free love', he said. By mistake
or otherwise a player sometimes castles after
having moved his king away from and back to its
starting square. In an Irish dub game in 1973 no
one noticed when one oi the players, W. Heiden-
feld, castled for the second time. Nevertheless he
lost the game. "
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Post Reply