Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
John Townsend
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by John Townsend » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:38 am

Gerard implied in his last post that Edward Winter has made no positive comments about the Blackburne book, but that is not so.

Firstly, an item referred to by Olimpiu above, C.N. 9457, included the following:
Even so, any critic with the new Sánchez and Harding books before him should recognize at once the overwhelming superiority of the latter. We look forward to reading both volumes from cover to cover, but the Blackburne one will take precedence.
Later, C.N. 10661 contained this:
In recent decades, historical chess biographies have seen a major advance in scholarship, with far greater recognition of the need for precise sources. The world’s leading publisher in the field is McFarland & Company, Inc., and any list of its best biographical works is likely to include the following:
The list then included Tim's Blackburne book and another title by him.

There was no full review in Chess Notes.

Simon Rogers
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Simon Rogers » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:54 pm

Is the McDonnell Attack (e4 e6 f4) named after Alexander McDonnell?

John Upham
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by John Upham » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:02 pm

Simon Rogers wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:54 pm
Is the McDonnell Attack (e4 e6 f4) named after Alexander McDonnell?
According to Hooper & Whyld, page 403, line 662 it is called the La Bourdonnais Variation. (H&W omit the "La")

You might be thinking of 1.e4 c5 2.f4 also known as the Grand Prix Attack after Dave Rumens.
Last edited by John Upham on Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Simon Rogers
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Simon Rogers » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:06 pm

According to a couple of websites it is called La Labourdonnais variation/ McDonnell Attack.
But they were American websites.

John Townsend
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by John Townsend » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:23 pm

Alexander McDonnell did play it in 1831 in his match against William Fraser. He also played it as White against Labourdonnais in 1834. It seems that Labourdonnais wrote about it in a book.

O.G. Urcan
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by O.G. Urcan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:28 pm

Nobody on this Forum (including Gerard Killoran, John Townsend and me) has been able to substantiate Tim Harding's claim of nearly five weeks ago that Edward Winter has made "many and unfair attacks" on him. Let's now see whether Tim Harding will break his silence and withdraw the words.

By the way, Gerard Killoran, John Townsend and I have something else in common: we have all contributed many items to Chess Notes. In a 2018 book Tim Harding claimed to know why people contribute to Edward Winter's column.

- O.G. Urcan

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Gerard Killoran » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:52 pm

O.G. Urcan wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:28 pm
Nobody on this Forum (including Gerard Killoran, John Townsend and me) has been able to substantiate Tim Harding's claim of nearly five weeks ago that Edward Winter has made "many and unfair attacks" on him. Let's now see whether Tim Harding will break his silence and withdraw the words.

By the way, Gerard Killoran, John Townsend and I have something else in common: we have all contributed many items to Chess Notes. In a 2018 book Tim Harding claimed to know why people contribute to Edward Winter's column.

- O.G. Urcan
Olimpiu Urcan might want to explain why Tim Harding was criticised for promoting his own book, on his own website. Secondly, Olimpiu Urcan has repeatedly attacked Tim Harding on Twitter. For example:

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I replied to Mr. Urcan on Twitter and asked him to to withdraw the "least classy" remark, but was ignored. I know Mark Crowther well, he performs an essential service to Chess with his website, does not lack class in any way, and isn't even a writer by profession!

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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by John Upham » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:54 pm

O.G. Urcan wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:28 pm
By the way, Gerard Killoran, John Townsend and I have something else in common: we have all contributed many items to Chess Notes. In a 2018 book Tim Harding claimed to know why people contribute to Edward Winter's column.

- O.G. Urcan
Could you make clear what EGW meant by "typically peculiar assertions" ?

I understand that they might be assertions but in what ways are they

1. Typical

and / or

2. peculiar

Thank-you.
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:35 pm

Gerard Killoran wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:52 pm
I know Mark Crowther well, he performs an essential service to Chess with his website, does not lack class in any way, and isn't even a writer by profession!
Mark's an Information Scientist, and has been doing sterling work for nearly 30 years now reporting chess via TWIC; when you have that much information to process, I don't think the style of what you say is the priority, we should just be really grateful that he does so
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:54 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:35 pm
Mark's an Information Scientist, and has been doing sterling work for nearly 30 years now reporting chess via TWIC
After TWIC had been running for a while and when Winter had eventually discovered the Internet, he wrote a piece referring sarcastically to "the weak at chess".

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:37 pm

"Mark's an Information Scientist, and has been doing sterling work for nearly 30 years now reporting chess via TWIC; when you have that much information to process, I don't think the style of what you say is the priority, we should just be really grateful that he does so"

Yes - I am.

O.G. Urcan
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by O.G. Urcan » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:57 am

Gerard Killoran wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:52 pm
O.G. Urcan wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:28 pm
Nobody on this Forum (including Gerard Killoran, John Townsend and me) has been able to substantiate Tim Harding's claim of nearly five weeks ago that Edward Winter has made "many and unfair attacks" on him. Let's now see whether Tim Harding will break his silence and withdraw the words.

By the way, Gerard Killoran, John Townsend and I have something else in common: we have all contributed many items to Chess Notes. In a 2018 book Tim Harding claimed to know why people contribute to Edward Winter's column.

- O.G. Urcan
Olimpiu Urcan might want to explain why Tim Harding was criticised for promoting his own book, on his own website. Secondly, Olimpiu Urcan has repeatedly attacked Tim Harding on Twitter.
Gerard Killoran's first point has already been dealt with by John Townsend. Writers naturally use their websites to promote their own work, but it is a question of degree. If they announce that their new book is "the most important chess historical biography to appear for many years," it is perfectly fair for others to express the view that such a level of self-praise is excessive.

If the Blackburne matter now completes Gerard Killoran's attempted defence of Tim Harding's reference to "Winter's many and unfair attacks on my work," I'll gladly deal head-on with his new points (my tweets about Tim Harding and Mark Crowther).

- O.G. Urcan

O.G. Urcan
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by O.G. Urcan » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:00 am

John Upham wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:54 pm
O.G. Urcan wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:28 pm
By the way, Gerard Killoran, John Townsend and I have something else in common: we have all contributed many items to Chess Notes. In a 2018 book Tim Harding claimed to know why people contribute to Edward Winter's column.

- O.G. Urcan
Could you make clear what EGW meant by "typically peculiar assertions" ?

I understand that they might be assertions but in what ways are they

1. Typical

and / or

2. peculiar

Thank-you.
I have raised this matter with Edward Winter, who has replied to me as follows:

"Dear Mr Urcan,

Many thanks for your message informing me of a request at the English Chess Forum for examples of what I regard as Tim Harding's "typically
peculiar assertions" (my phrase in C.N. 10815).

I shall be pleased to provide many examples, starting later today.

All best regards.

Yours sincerely,

Edward Winter"


For that purpose I propose to create shortly a new thread on this Chess History section of the ECF, entitled "Tim Harding's typically peculiar assertions."

- O.G. Urcan

Paul Cooksey
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by Paul Cooksey » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:32 am

O.G. Urcan wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:00 am
For that purpose I propose to create shortly a new thread on this Chess History section of the ECF, entitled "Tim Harding's typically peculiar assertions."- O.G. Urcan
I note that only John Upham expressed an interest. Sending the examples to him by PM would be preferable for me and I suspect most other users of this site.

I imagine if Mr Winter wants to remind people why he is in dispute with Mr Harding, then Carl would prefer he uses his own site for the purpose.

O.G. Urcan
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Re: Remembering Alexander McDonnell (22-iv-1798 14-ix-1835)

Post by O.G. Urcan » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:38 am

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:32 am
O.G. Urcan wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:00 am
For that purpose I propose to create shortly a new thread on this Chess History section of the ECF, entitled "Tim Harding's typically peculiar assertions."- O.G. Urcan
I note that only John Upham expressed an interest. Sending the examples to him by PM would be preferable for me and I suspect most other users of this site.

I imagine if Mr Winter wants to remind people why he is in dispute with Mr Harding, then Carl would prefer he uses his own site for the purpose.
If Paul Cooksey is correct that only one person on this Forum appears interested in seeing further evidence of Tim Harding's "typically peculiar assertions," I can simply inform Edward Winter that his offer to provide chapter and verse here is unnecessary.

- O.G. Urcan

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