Cheating in chess

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Matthew Turner
Posts: 3600
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Looks a pretty average game to me

https://lichess.org/gX1cn9VK#113

Doesn't look like a super GM cheating

(you have to remember it is 3 0, but still)

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3600
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:21 pm

Having played through all Maghsoodloo's games at the Levitov Cup, I would say this

1. The case against him seems to based on him playing better than expected for a player of his rating and only making mistakes when he is in an 'overwhelming' position
2. I don't know how often super GMs make mistakes in 3 0 chess, so I don't know how outstanding the performing is
3. I would be doubtful that the case would pass the legal threshold of beyond reasonable doubt (in a criminal case)

When considering the case one has to consider the mechanism by which a player would cheat in 3 0 chess

The player who finished 8th (GM Uzbek005) has also had their account closed.

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:22 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:21 pm
1. The case against him seems to based on him playing better than expected for a player of his rating
For a player of his rating? He is one of the best blitz players in the world.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3600
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:26 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:22 pm
Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:21 pm
1. The case against him seems to based on him playing better than expected for a player of his rating
For a player of his rating? He is one of the best blitz players in the world.
Yes, I know.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21291
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:42 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:21 pm
When considering the case one has to consider the mechanism by which a player would cheat in 3 0 chess
The server itself might facilitate this. If there's real time coverage with analysis and suggestions, a player could log in as a spectator and take hints from the commentary. But are lichess claiming that the computer was configured so that the engine was automatically playing all the moves?

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3600
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:53 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:42 pm
Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:21 pm
When considering the case one has to consider the mechanism by which a player would cheat in 3 0 chess
The server itself might facilitate this. If there's real time coverage with analysis and suggestions, a player could log in as a spectator and take hints from the commentary. But are lichess claiming that the computer was configured so that the engine was automatically playing all the moves?
No and No.

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:18 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:26 pm
Yes, I know.
But do they? I wonder what they are using, is that one of the things they don't reveal?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3600
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:23 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:18 pm
Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:26 pm
Yes, I know.
But do they? I wonder what they are using, is that one of the things they don't reveal?
Yes they do - all titled player accounts are verified.

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:30 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:23 pm
Yes they do - all titled player accounts are verified.
So what rating do you think they are using?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3600
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:40 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:30 pm
Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:23 pm
Yes they do - all titled player accounts are verified.
So what rating do you think they are using?
Those making the decision to close Maghsoodloo's account would be aware of all the ratings (online and OTB) that the player holds.
Any thoughts on the games?

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:03 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:40 pm
Any thoughts on the games?
No, I don't do that.

I wish you didn't have to keep relying on things that platforms "would be aware of". If they are comparing quality of play to a rating, why can they not reveal the rating they have in mind? The usual story is that if they revealed details of their methods it would assist cheaters, but I don't see how this would.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Andy Howie
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:32 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Andy Howie » Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:40 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:03 pm
Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:40 pm
Any thoughts on the games?
No, I don't do that.

I wish you didn't have to keep relying on things that platforms "would be aware of". If they are comparing quality of play to a rating, why can they not reveal the rating they have in mind? The usual story is that if they revealed details of their methods it would assist cheaters, but I don't see how this would.
Nick,

It is kind of a circular answer i'm afraid. Lets use a completely stupid example to illustrate. If everyone that cheated OTB wore blue t-shirts and the arbiters knew that, they would pay more attention to people who wore blue t shirts. The cheaters would soon learn that is how they are being detected and switch to red.

Ok that is a very simplistic way to look at it but it is similar to cheating detection methods. I don't reveal to people about the electronic methods I use in tournaments for working out if someone has a phone or electronic device. Everyone can see me with a hand scanner but they don't know what else I am doing. As the FIDE Press officer can vouch from the Grand Swiss, they work really well. If the cheats knew how I was doing it, they can modify behaviours to stop me detecting meaning I have to develop more methods...

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:50 pm

Andy Howie wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:40 pm
If the cheats knew how I was doing it, they can modify behaviours to stop me detecting meaning I have to develop more methods...
Andy,
Yes I do get that, at least in a limited way, but not here. I wonder whether the platform is saying that Parham is playing online blitz as well as Carlsen, to which he would reply "what's your point?".
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3600
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:58 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:50 pm
Andy Howie wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:40 pm
If the cheats knew how I was doing it, they can modify behaviours to stop me detecting meaning I have to develop more methods...
Andy,
Yes I do get that, at least in a limited way, but not here. I wonder whether the platform is saying that Parham is playing online blitz as well as Carlsen, to which he would reply "what's your point?".
I believe if Carlsen had performed in the same way as Maghsoodloo he would have had his account closed.

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 3484
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover
Contact:

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Geoff Chandler » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:43 pm

" Everyone can see me with a hand scanner but they don't know what else I am doing."

Why am I suddenly reminded of BBC License fee detector vans which detected nothing
but cruised about pretending they could catch non-license fee payers.

Post Reply