Nominations 2021

[Neil Graham]

Who is Sue, please?

Don't you recall S Dunham, a prolific poster in the early days of the ECF's own forum? Even further back was a Dr Cular on this forum.

I thought it was Dr.A.Cula

[Brendan O'Gorman]

Well, John has asked the question about how much support the ECF gives Shreyas Royal, and now Malcolm wants to use £10K from the John Robinson Trust to support Shreyas, so you might suspect there's a connection

I suspect that this is an example of a coincidence rather than a connection.

Further support for any of our most talented juniors would be welcomed by myself and maybe a few others also.

You would know John

I'd agree with the latter point; I wonder if the majority of ECF members would though; there's certainly no suggestion of actually asking them

I've spoken today to a chess player who expressed the view that other than the grading system, what does the ECF do for us? I'd imagine suggesting to him that the ECF should spend money on juniors would be popular with him, but that he's in a minority oop North

Not just oop North. I suspect the ordinary chess player just wants to play chess not support its elite forms. I can't claim to have convincing objective evidence for this suspicion but I play a lot of chess all around the country, and I have never heard ordinary players mention the progress of England's international teams, either adult or junior.

[Jonathan Bryant]

]

With respect that is not quite the case. Tjhe closing date for nominations isn't until tomorrow -

Fair enough. I retrospectively put an embargo on the post for 24 hours.

[JustinHorton]

I've spoken today to a chess player who expressed the view that other than the grading system, what does the ECF do for us?

Has he ever asked

[LawrenceCooper]

Further support for any of our most talented juniors would be welcomed by myself and maybe a few others also.

In my brief time as junior director (2013-14) the budget was 0 and a quote from one of the directors that has stuck in my mind was "Why should we give any money to junior chess when the parents can pay for it all?"

[Roger Lancaster]

Obviously I'd congratulate Malcolm on the success of ChessFest and his work at CSC. However, I suggest he is likely to be misleading in implying in his address that Oliver Dowden's warm words regarding ChessFest - in part, an apology for not attending - were anything more than warm words. In the nicest possible way, Oliver Dowden isn't exactly the most influential figure in this government and I see no reason to infer from his letter that HM Government's attitude towards chess is going to change any time soon. Moreover, anyone can judge Mr Dowden's own rating of ChessFest's importance [quite apart from the fact that he wasn't present] by going to https://www.oliverdowden.com/news where next day's entry [19 July] omitted any mention of the event and instead focused on the rebuilding of a local school.

All the evidence suggests to me that, while ChessFest was a success and Malcolm deserves credit for it, it had no more than an ephemeral impact and that it's wrong to suggest that it had political significance. In a short radio interview yesterday, the presenter mentioned The Queens Gambit and the lockdown as key reasons for the recent surge in the popularity of chess but it occurred to neither of us to mention ChessFest.

[John Upham]

a quote from one of the directors that has stuck in my mind was "Why should we give any money to junior chess when the parents can pay for it all?"

Wow!

That is quite disturbing. I hope that that person is no longer a Director.

[LawrenceCooper]

a quote from one of the directors that has stuck in my mind was "Why should we give any money to junior chess when the parents can pay for it all?"

Wow!

That is quite disturbing. I hope that that person is no longer a Director.

No.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"Why should we give any money to junior chess when the parents can pay for it all?"

Not what you would expect from someone in that position, although parents have paid over the odds for their children to go to events as part of a junior squad. Of course, there are minders and coaching etc to consider, not just travel and accommodation and food.

However, once the Government reduced funding for various activities, it's easy to continue. (For example, they noticed that there was a committee costing 40K a year to decide which wines to serve in the House of Commons restaurant, and thought, "Isn't that the manager's job?)

Skiing and equestrian events are largely done by rich people, and we don't win medals at table-tennis, so they think "why fund them?"

[John Upham]

and we don't win medals at table-tennis,

Not so.

The ENG Para table tennis players have performed very well over the last few years having had a strong boost in funding.

William John Bayley MBE is a British professional Paralympic table tennis player, ranked world number 1. He is the 2016 Summer Paralympics Games gold medallist and the 2014 World Champion.

We also do well in veterans table tennis.

In March 2016, Paul Drinkhall was part of the England team, alongside Liam Pitchford and Sam Walker, which won bronze medals at the World Team Championships in Malaysia, England's first medal at that level since 1983 and the first time a newly promoted team had earned a podium place at the event.

Liam Pitchford is currently ranked 15 in the world.

At the Commonwealth Games in Australia in 2018, Drinkhall won the gold medal in the men's doubles alongside Liam Pitchford and was part of the England squad which won men's team bronze, alongside Pitchford, Sam Walker and David McBeath.


Apart from that (as John Cleese might say) you are correct.

John Upham, Founder of British Table Tennis News.

[J T Melsom]

It seems to me there are several aspects to this. First do we want to invest in elite level activity and second how much success at elite level would stimulate growth in participation, as distinct from other promotion of chess?. Most activities whether sports or creative arts would argue that role models are important in this respect, but chess has a much smaller media presence, so achievements may go unnoticed. I don't necessarily share the view but can understand those who see no real connection between their personal enjoyment of chess and the elite level.

And whilst I can see bosses at the LTA rubbing their hands with excitement at Emma Raducanu's emergence, there is plenty of scope for sports bodies to squander the opportunities presented, as the Murray family routinely point out.

How much table tennis funding for elite players comes from the membership?

[Kevin Thurlow]

But funding was stopped as TT players were not winning medals at events like the Olympics. I'm glad the cited players did well, but the last success was 2018... TT also suffers from not being a good TV sport.

[John Upham]

TT also suffers from not being a good TV sport.

I recall spending Saturday afternoons with Desmond Lyneham and Dickie Davies in monochrome watching Desmond Douglas and others followed by Mick McManus, Shirley Crabtree, Kendo Nagasaki and the like.

TT is highly streamed these days and appears on non-UK channels.

Its format is perfect for television, so au contraire it is excellent for TV. That isn't the same as appearing frequently on UK TV.

[John Townsend]

This point about "elite level activity" made by J.T. Melsom, is a good one. In my opinion, resurgence of chess in Britain needs to be much more broadly based than the way it is envisaged by the ECF. In addition to club chess, resurgence should encompass more chess in pubs and cafés and, perhaps above all, more social chess, e.g. at home. Unfortunately, these objectives do not satisfy the ECF's desire to raise money and promote "elite level activity".

[Angus French]

Interestingly, said email is addressed to a number of MCF officials, yet not our ECF rep or reserve ECF rep who might actually cast the votes, as well as asking us not to make a decision at our AGM tonight (I think it's not on the Agenda, nor likely to be brought up, but there you go)

There's a question of principle which you might wish to discuss. it's whether the funds held in the name of the BCF, mostly contributed by legacies should be conserved for future crises and for the investment returns they can contribute. The alternative being put forward is that they should be spent now, on development officers perhaps. At the back of my mind I have the supermarket slogan "When it's gone, it's gone". If the funds are to be conserved the suggestion is that they be partly out of reach of ECF Boards by being under the control of the charity "Chess Trust" which has added taxation exemptions.

So far as I know there are two funds which come under the auspices of the BCF: PIF 1 and PIF 2. I believe each has its own set of deeds, defining how money is to be invested and released, and set of trustees. Trustees are appointed as needed by BCF Council. I'm not sure PIF decisions are something the ECF/BCF CEO will have a direct say on - but maybe the CEO can influence BCF Council and BCF Council can influence the trustees.

According to the latest set of BCF accounts available (to 31 August 2019, published for the BCF Finance meeting in April 2021), PIF 1 and PIF 2 had assets amounting to just over £110K (with total BCF assets amounting to £113K). Maybe these have increased in value (through donations or bequests or asset appreciation) to the £200K Malcolm quotes.

Checking back, I see I got the PIF 1 and PIF 2 valuations wrong. The headline valuations for both funds are on a historic cost basis (I wonder why - but that's a different question). The *market* valuations were £106,098 for PIF 1 (which includes a valuation for Chess Centre Limited) and £77,085 for PIF 2, giving a total which is much closer to the £200K Malcolm cited in his election address.

Something else: I think what might be useful is if someone - Nick Faulks' Finance Committee? - produced an analysis of the different trust funds (PIF 1, PIF 2, the John Robinson Youth Trust, the Chess Trust and any others) which assist with the financing of English chess. Such as analysis might show for each trust:
- the type of trust - e.g. whether a charity;
- the policies on investments and grants;
- the value of assets; and
- who the trustees are.
It would also be interesting to know:
- what donations/bequests were made to the trust in recent years;
- what grants were made by the trust in recent years; and
- what the trust's investment performance has been in recent years.