Accusation against Alejandro Ramirez

[Chris Goodall]

Sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape are horrifically humiliating, violating and disempowering acts for the victim. Whilst this may not satisfy your "damsel in distress" criteria, it does need to be borne in mind when men on this forum seem to think reporting such crimes is a relatively straightforward business.

I can't find any references to the straightforwardness or otherwise of reporting, but aside from that, you haven't heard the advice "denormalise, don't demoralise" for people working with survivors, have you?

[IM Jack Rudd]

Obvious and true. In fact, without names, there's not too much the police can do either.

Well, yes, if the names aren't given to the ECF at all, there's nothing they can do. The trickier situation is if the names are given to them in confidence, in which case they're limited to actions of the "don't give this player further contracts with us" variety.

Assuming the ECF accepts that the people named to them in confidence are guilty of the offences of which they are being accused.

Not necessarily "accepts that they're guilty", but certainly "accepts that the accusation is being made in good faith".

[Chris Goodall]

This seems as good a time as any to point out that the ECF has no mind of its own and so can't accept things. The ECF Board can, or Council can, and the Board ought to ask Council to ratify any policy decisions, so God help us if the two disagree on whether an accusation is being made in good faith. Or if Council are asked to confirm the suspension of a person whose identity is known only to the Board in confidence.

[Tim Spanton]

Well, yes, if the names aren't given to the ECF at all, there's nothing they can do. The trickier situation is if the names are given to them in confidence, in which case they're limited to actions of the "don't give this player further contracts with us" variety.

Assuming the ECF accepts that the people named to them in confidence are guilty of the offences of which they are being accused.

Not necessarily "accepts that they're guilty", but certainly "accepts that the accusation is being made in good faith".

But how can "good faith" be evaluated if accusations are accepted "in confidence," which presumably means the accused will not be asked for their side of the matter? Presumably we do not want people being banned without them even knowing they have been accused of something, let alone given a chance to defend themselves?

[Matt Bridgeman]

Assuming the ECF accepts that the people named to them in confidence are guilty of the offences of which they are being accused.

Not necessarily "accepts that they're guilty", but certainly "accepts that the accusation is being made in good faith".

But how can "good faith" be evaluated if accusations are accepted "in confidence," which presumably means the accused will not be asked for their side of the matter? Presumably we do not want people being banned without them even knowing they have been accused of something, let alone given a chance to defend themselves?

The US has had Safe Sport for the past 6 years. A serious organisation with an annual budget of 21 million and 117 staff. Perhaps in the future the British government will champion a scaled down version, and perhaps include games. It seems quite an effective vehicle for producing sanctions in relation to sexual misconduct; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Center_for_SafeSport

[Matt Bridgeman]

Relevant to organisations sitting on or covering up allegations, either to protect ‘the brand’ or perhaps the reputations of individuals, there’s a brilliant new documentary film on Netflix called ‘Scouts Honor: The Secret Files of the Boy Scouts of America.’ Whether the ECF have been guilty of doing this is a bit unclear, the Jennifer Shahade/US Chess Federation saga suggests some Federations might be keen on the sit on it approach.

[Roger de Coverly]

Whether the ECF have been guilty of doing this is a bit unclear, the Jennifer Shahade/US Chess Federation saga suggests some Federations might be keen on the sit on it approach.

The ECF and the BCF before it are much more decentralised organisations presumably than the Boy Scouts of America.

You know who continued to be a top official in local and regional chess organisations up to his departure for Amsterdam. As far as the BCF were concerned they didn't employ him or appoint him to any posts after the Glorney Cup business of more than ten years previously.

But are there more recent stories that the ECF knows about and hasn't done anything? I don't think unnamed accusations on Twitter really count. There was however the story of unfair treatment by then ECF officials, some of which was featured in this forum at the time.

[Paul Cooksey]

Tim wrote above about whether the ECF "accepts people are guilty" which made me a bit uncomfortable. Guilty, at least for me, makes me think of criminal process, beyond reasonable doubt, etc. Things beyond the authority and competence of the ECF.

What I think the ECF has to do is safeguarding, which is about how to protect vulnerable people and children rather than justice Still, if a person is a risk to vulnerable people or children, that is very serious and I suppose often overlaps with crimes.

One thing we have learnt from twitter is that people are still litigious if they think they are being accused unfairly. So I started to think of what the ECF should do in a modern case similar to the one Roger references where a safeguarding risk was considered proven. It might be engagement with the DBS system rather than other chess bodies.

[Matt Bridgeman]

Tim wrote above about whether the ECF "accepts people are guilty" which made me a bit uncomfortable. Guilty, at least for me, makes me think of criminal process, beyond reasonable doubt, etc. Things beyond the authority and competence of the ECF.

What I think the ECF has to do is safeguarding, which is about how to protect vulnerable people and children rather than justice Still, if a person is a risk to vulnerable people or children, that is very serious and I suppose often overlaps with crimes.

One thing we have learnt from twitter is that people are still litigious if they think they are being accused unfairly. So I started to think of what the ECF should do in a modern case similar to the one Roger references where a safeguarding risk was considered proven. It might be engagement with the DBS system rather than other chess bodies.

Certainly what came out of that Netflix boy scouts of America documentary was that if a sexual assault is reported to an organisation regardless of the wishes of any individual or any potential reputation damage, the organisation has a duty to report it to the authorities.

Over on Sabrina’s Twitter feed there’s screenshots of messaging which puts up further red flags. It doesn’t take too much detective work to see it’s likely social media messaging from ten years ago, where the probable subject of story one is talking about being sexually aroused by a 14 year old female junior player.

[Ian Thompson]

Over on Sabrina’s Twitter feed there’s screenshots of messaging which puts up further red flags. It doesn’t take too much detective work to see it’s likely social media messaging from ten years ago, where the probable subject of story one is talking about being sexually aroused by a 14 year old female junior player.

I wonder if the girl being referred to was aware of the messages at the time they were sent. If not, she might be now, now she can be identified from all the snippets of information given by various people.

[Matt Bridgeman]

Over on Sabrina’s Twitter feed there’s screenshots of messaging which puts up further red flags. It doesn’t take too much detective work to see it’s likely social media messaging from ten years ago, where the probable subject of story one is talking about being sexually aroused by a 14 year old female junior player.

I wonder if the girl being referred to was aware of the messages at the time they were sent. If not, she might be now, now she can be identified from all the snippets of information given by various people.

I think what is happening is Sabrina is now seen as a spokesperson, and is being sent various accounts of abuse, sometimes in the form of social media messaging. I think she said 33 people, or something like that, had contacted her so far.

[Ian Thompson]

Over on Sabrina’s Twitter feed there’s screenshots of messaging which puts up further red flags. It doesn’t take too much detective work to see it’s likely social media messaging from ten years ago, where the probable subject of story one is talking about being sexually aroused by a 14 year old female junior player.

I wonder if the girl being referred to was aware of the messages at the time they were sent. If not, she might be now, now she can be identified from all the snippets of information given by various people.

I think what is happening is Sabrina is now seen as a spokesperson, and is being sent various accounts of abuse, sometimes in the form of social media messaging. I think she said 33 people, or something like that, had contacted her so far.

Yes. It's not clear who this message was sent to, but referring to the girl in the 3rd person indicates that the GM didn't send it to her, it was sent to someone else.

[Matt Bridgeman]

I wonder if the girl being referred to was aware of the messages at the time they were sent. If not, she might be now, now she can be identified from all the snippets of information given by various people.

I think what is happening is Sabrina is now seen as a spokesperson, and is being sent various accounts of abuse, sometimes in the form of social media messaging. I think she said 33 people, or something like that, had contacted her so far.

Yes. It's not clear who this message was sent to, but referring to the girl in the 3rd person indicates that the GM didn't send it to her, it was sent to someone else.

It seemed to be be, which is why I described it more as a red flag than proof of grooming or whatever. Still you wouldn’t want the guy anywhere near your kids I’d suggest! It’s clearly going to be a bumpy road. Clearly not everyone is loving the social media disclosures - the Elisabeth Pähtz dust up today! I can understand it, this painful, repressed, stuff coming to the surface after 20 years. It’s not going to be easy.

As an add-on, it would appear the message re being sexually aroused by a 14 year old female chess player was sent direct to Sabrina from the subject of Story 1 via social media. And is one of a number of similar messages that he has corresponded to her over time.

[Chris Goodall]

Clearly not everyone is loving the social media disclosures - the Elisabeth Pähtz dust up today! I can understand it, this painful, repressed, stuff coming to the surface after 20 years. It’s not going to be easy.

One can't help but applaud Sabrina's skill at extrapolating from "these problems are not only in chess" to "you're fine with GMs going around r*ping young girls"

[NickFaulks]

Clearly not everyone is loving the social media disclosures - the Elisabeth Pähtz dust up today!

Would it be possible for comments such as this to come with a link? Many people who do not live on social media will never be able to guess what it is about.

Chris, I presume you found the source, unless perhaps you were writing about something else.