A bumper haul of Lacy Hulbert games...
Below, a different score from that given in Britbase, from move 10.
Britbase Updates
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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Britbase Updates
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Gerard Killoran
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A curiosity. This does not tally with any of the games Abrahams played with black at Nottingham 1954. Any ideas?
- Kington Times - Friday 03 September 1954 p.7.png (159.2 KiB) Viewed 2373 times
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates
It does tally with Hooper-Abrahams, round 8, except that the newspaper version has a slightly different finish...
Thanks for the 'box set' of Lacy Hulbert games, btw. I'm currently processing them.
Thanks for the 'box set' of Lacy Hulbert games, btw. I'm currently processing them.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Britbase Updates
I suppose you and Gerard and others see this all the time.John Saunders wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 6:20 pmIt does tally with Hooper-Abrahams, round 8, except that the newspaper version has a slightly different finish...
What causes it? Is the newspaper correspondent reconstructing the final position and preceding moves from memory?
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates
Who knows? But your guess looks about right: the columnist probably had a quick glance at the position and either made a mental note or scribbled it on a piece of paper. And got the position wrong: he managed to remember/note where all the main pieces involved in the denouement were placed, but not a couple of pawns that weren't central to the action.Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 6:44 pmI suppose you and Gerard and others see this all the time.John Saunders wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 6:20 pmIt does tally with Hooper-Abrahams, round 8, except that the newspaper version has a slightly different finish...
What causes it? Is the newspaper correspondent reconstructing the final position and preceding moves from memory?
The more time I spend chasing up and comparing game scores, the more I come to realise that it's not possible to be sure of a definitive score in a significantly large proportion of cases. Rather like Chinese whispers, they pass from person to person and at each stage they can become garbled. Thomas Niessen, the creator of Chess Suite software, has written an excellent essay on the subject. His most quotable quote, which is relevant here...
Trying to fix game scores can be every bit as difficult as textual criticism which I remember vaguely from my time studying Latin and Greek.Thomas Niessen wrote:It is the number of different publications of a game that determines the probability of different game-scores.
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Britbase Updates
Different versions of games are difficult to sort out. You cannot even rely on looking at different sources and saying that version wins 21-10, as the 21 might have all been taken from the wrong source.
I can provide an example from food chemistry - niacin/nicotinic acid is vitamin B3, pantothenic acid is vitamin B5. I found many published examples of niacin being called "vitamin B5", which puzzled me, until I looked at THE work on vitamins, by Sebrell and Harris (1954), a wonderful series of books, but in one place there was a typo, where this error occurred - it was right everywhere else it was mentioned. If people writing about vitamins looked in the one wrong place, they got it wrong. There's even a search that springs up on google. "Are vitamins B3 and B5 the same?"
It's worse in chess, as even if you have the primary source (the scoresheets), both players may have recorded it wrongly!
I can provide an example from food chemistry - niacin/nicotinic acid is vitamin B3, pantothenic acid is vitamin B5. I found many published examples of niacin being called "vitamin B5", which puzzled me, until I looked at THE work on vitamins, by Sebrell and Harris (1954), a wonderful series of books, but in one place there was a typo, where this error occurred - it was right everywhere else it was mentioned. If people writing about vitamins looked in the one wrong place, they got it wrong. There's even a search that springs up on google. "Are vitamins B3 and B5 the same?"
It's worse in chess, as even if you have the primary source (the scoresheets), both players may have recorded it wrongly!
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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Britbase Updates
From: https://library.leeds.ac.uk/info/1110/r ... ry-sources
Lacy-Hulbert was a competitor at Nottingham 1954 so must have observed the ending above after finishing his own game. Eye-witness testimony is often held up as a gold-standard, but an American defence lawyer once described it as the second-most unreliable form of evidence, just above jail-house confessions.
We have to hope that the closer to the event, the more reliable the source. You have to be careful however. I once saw a piece of biographical information in a reference book which relied on an item in a contemporary newspaper. Unfortunately the authors missed the following week's newspaper, which contained a letter proving the item to be false. Not at all important, but it taught me a valuable lesson.Primary sources are documents that provide a first-hand record of events, created at the time of the event or from the era to which they relate. These can be government, company or personal papers, newspapers, books or magazines, or films or works of art.
This resource guide brings together a variety of primary sources that are available online. Some of these resources are free to use and available to everyone. Those marked as subscription services are available for use by University of Leeds staff and students both on and off-campus.
The different types of resources are:
Archives and archival papers
Contemporaneous periodicals
Early books and texts
Graphic and audio-visual (see audio-visual guide)
Historical government documents
Newspaper and magazine archives (see newspapers guide)
Play texts
Lacy-Hulbert was a competitor at Nottingham 1954 so must have observed the ending above after finishing his own game. Eye-witness testimony is often held up as a gold-standard, but an American defence lawyer once described it as the second-most unreliable form of evidence, just above jail-house confessions.
A 'miserable worm' - Nigel Short
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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Britbase Updates
We can't get enough of Lacy Hulbert's British Championship games, even when he wins after being a Rook down.
A 'miserable worm' - Nigel Short
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John Saunders
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Many thanks for these two examples of the Lacy Hulbert oeuvre. Duly posted at BritBase along with the other games you posted here a few days ago...Gerard Killoran wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2024 11:53 amWe can't get enough of Lacy Hulbert's British Championship games, even when he wins after being a Rook down.
1926 British Championship
1927 BCF Congress & Women's World Championship
1928 British Championship
1929 British Championship
1937 British Championship
1938 British Championship
1939 BCF Congress
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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Britbase Updates
An exception to the APLH monopoly:
- Newcastle Evening Chronicle - Monday 02 August 1937 p.3.png (701.67 KiB) Viewed 2043 times
A 'miserable worm' - Nigel Short
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates
Many thanks for the Rowena Dew (Bruce) game, Gerard, duly added to the BritBase collection...
1937 British Championship
You will no doubt be pleased to know that BritBase's man in Germany, Ulrich Tamm, has uncovered another example of the Ludlow clergyman's oeuvre from the 1933 Premier Reserves...
1933 BCF Congress
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Gerard Killoran
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It seems I have a rival in my affections for Lacy Hulbert.
As proof of my greater love here's a bonus:
The first is a game played in a tournament listed on Britbase, but without any games provided as yet.
The second is probably just a club game but it gives me the opportunity of introducing a chess player with an even more exotic name than our good Reverend, i.e Arnold de Merveilleux Chesterman b.1896 -d .1968. At the time of both games, Arthur Percival was eighty years old.
As proof of my greater love here's a bonus:
The first is a game played in a tournament listed on Britbase, but without any games provided as yet.
The second is probably just a club game but it gives me the opportunity of introducing a chess player with an even more exotic name than our good Reverend, i.e Arnold de Merveilleux Chesterman b.1896 -d .1968. At the time of both games, Arthur Percival was eighty years old.
A 'miserable worm' - Nigel Short
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates
Anyone who has logged into BritBase over the weekend may have been alarmed to see an error message saying "your connection is not private".
Please do not be unduly alarmed by this - it seems BritBase's internet service provider (Zen Internet) is having problems updating security certificates. They are blaming their service providers...
Please do not be unduly alarmed by this - it seems BritBase's internet service provider (Zen Internet) is having problems updating security certificates. They are blaming their service providers...
I also regret any inconvenience this may cause. I'm going to investigate a possible work-round but in the meantime I believe you can safely ignore the warning and proceed to the website without cause for anxiety, but if you still feel nervous then enjoy the interlude...Zen Internet wrote:We are still investigating the issue with SSL certificates being issued on our shared hosting platform.
Certificates are being issued, but they are taking much longer than anticipated and our suppliers are still processing the backlog of requests.
Zen regrets any inconvenience this may cause.
- interlude potters wheel.jpg (22.19 KiB) Viewed 1869 times
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John Saunders
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Evenin' all: Zen Internet's suggested work-around seems to have worked, so it's safe to venture into BritBase again.
Mind how you go, now...
Mind how you go, now...
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Ian Thompson
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Re: Britbase Updates
Was this statement - "chess is the only game which M.P.’s are permitted openly to play within the precincts of the Palace of Westminster" - true at the time it was written (in 1932)? Is it still true?