"Was this statement - "chess is the only game which M.P.’s are permitted openly to play within the precincts of the Palace of Westminster" - true at the time it was written (in 1932)? Is it still true?"
I have heard that statement before, but it may have been the same source....
Britbase Updates
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates
Edward Winter's long and informative article about chess in the House of Commons has some references to this...
https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/commons.html
Perhaps the most relevant passage is the following...
This suggests that backgammon is also sanctioned but in the next sentence says it is "tabooed." The phrase "winked at" leads one to surmise that there is no specific regulation to be found in a rule book (e.g. Erskine May) stating which games may or may not be played there, but that any such activity that a member of parliament proposed to engage in at Westminster would be treated on its merits by the Palace of Westminster authorities. I guess the decision would take into account the reputation of the given leisure activity in the eyes of the general public and how that might reflect on Westminster if mentioned in the press. Chess probably passes that test whereas games associated with gambling wouldn't.
https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/commons.html
Perhaps the most relevant passage is the following...
- chess-in-parliament.png (61.27 KiB) Viewed 4785 times
This suggests that backgammon is also sanctioned but in the next sentence says it is "tabooed." The phrase "winked at" leads one to surmise that there is no specific regulation to be found in a rule book (e.g. Erskine May) stating which games may or may not be played there, but that any such activity that a member of parliament proposed to engage in at Westminster would be treated on its merits by the Palace of Westminster authorities. I guess the decision would take into account the reputation of the given leisure activity in the eyes of the general public and how that might reflect on Westminster if mentioned in the press. Chess probably passes that test whereas games associated with gambling wouldn't.
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Neil_Hickman
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Re: Britbase Updates
Chess and backgammon may have been the only permissible games in 1893, but bridge (invented after then) is played by a great many Parliamentarians and the late Rixi Markus organised Commons v Lords matches.
It would have been a brave man who told the great Iain Macleod that he couldn’t play bridge, too.
It would have been a brave man who told the great Iain Macleod that he couldn’t play bridge, too.
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Richard James
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Re: Britbase Updates
A game from the 1st Class B section at Weston-super-Mare 1924.
A smooth positional win by the Bath clergyman.
Black's 31st and White's 32nd moves look like notation errors (QR-K when there's already a rook on K1 and RB-B6 when both rooks appear to be on the bishop file).
Source: Western Daily Press 25 April 1924
I'm currently researching George Clifford Brown. If anyone has any more of his games, preferably where he plays better than here, I'd be interested in seeing them.
A smooth positional win by the Bath clergyman.
Black's 31st and White's 32nd moves look like notation errors (QR-K when there's already a rook on K1 and RB-B6 when both rooks appear to be on the bishop file).
Source: Western Daily Press 25 April 1924
- GCBrown1.jpg (67.08 KiB) Viewed 4694 times
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates
Many thanks for the game, Richard, which I have added to the 1924 West of England Championship file on BritBase.
I have collected three other games played by George Clifford Brown, which you have probably already found on BritBase: (1) a draw with Dr James Aitken in a match between Oxford University and Worcester College for the Blind (Aitken file); (2) a loss to H J F Stephenson in the 1933/34 Hastings Major B tournament; (3) a loss to F van Seters in the 1934/35 Hastings Major A2. I've not found any other games by him. That said, there's an outside chance his games might have been mixed up with those played by George Spencer Brown who played a few games just after the last war.
George Clifford Brown's name appears on other BritBase pages. For example, in the 1929 Kent (Ramsgate) Congress which I uploaded earlier today, he is shown finishing last in the First Class C section.
Further BritBase news: I've been in contact with Malcolm Frank Collins, a retired professor of physics at McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, and he very kindly supplied me with two missing games from the 1956 British Championship, plus his win from the 1955 Oxford-Cambridge match. Malcolm Collins emigrated to Canada in the early 1960s having reached a BCF grade of 3a (about Elo 2300) in 1960, which would put him in the English top 20 of the time.
More recent BritBase additions: I've uploaded files for the 1981/82, 1983/84 and 1985/86 Hastings Congresses which now feature crosstables for the Challengers tournament, plus a few games. I'm hoping to do the same for more Hastings congresses of the 1980s, 1990s and 200s in due course. If anyone wants to contribute their own games from Hastings Congresses, do please email me (see link below).
I have collected three other games played by George Clifford Brown, which you have probably already found on BritBase: (1) a draw with Dr James Aitken in a match between Oxford University and Worcester College for the Blind (Aitken file); (2) a loss to H J F Stephenson in the 1933/34 Hastings Major B tournament; (3) a loss to F van Seters in the 1934/35 Hastings Major A2. I've not found any other games by him. That said, there's an outside chance his games might have been mixed up with those played by George Spencer Brown who played a few games just after the last war.
George Clifford Brown's name appears on other BritBase pages. For example, in the 1929 Kent (Ramsgate) Congress which I uploaded earlier today, he is shown finishing last in the First Class C section.
Further BritBase news: I've been in contact with Malcolm Frank Collins, a retired professor of physics at McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, and he very kindly supplied me with two missing games from the 1956 British Championship, plus his win from the 1955 Oxford-Cambridge match. Malcolm Collins emigrated to Canada in the early 1960s having reached a BCF grade of 3a (about Elo 2300) in 1960, which would put him in the English top 20 of the time.
More recent BritBase additions: I've uploaded files for the 1981/82, 1983/84 and 1985/86 Hastings Congresses which now feature crosstables for the Challengers tournament, plus a few games. I'm hoping to do the same for more Hastings congresses of the 1980s, 1990s and 200s in due course. If anyone wants to contribute their own games from Hastings Congresses, do please email me (see link below).
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Richard James
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Re: Britbase Updates
Many thanks, John.
There's a simul game between GC Brown and Alekhine in Neil Blackburn's excellent post here:
https://www.chess.com/blog/simaginfan/w ... s-part-one
There's a simul game between GC Brown and Alekhine in Neil Blackburn's excellent post here:
https://www.chess.com/blog/simaginfan/w ... s-part-one
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Paul Dupré
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Re: Britbase Updates
Mr George Newnes was president of the Surrey County Chess Association in April 1893.John Saunders wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 10:01 amEdward Winter's long and informative article about chess in the House of Commons has some references to this...
https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/commons.html
Perhaps the most relevant passage is the following...
chess-in-parliament.png
This suggests that backgammon is also sanctioned but in the next sentence says it is "tabooed." The phrase "winked at" leads one to surmise that there is no specific regulation to be found in a rule book (e.g. Erskine May) stating which games may or may not be played there, but that any such activity that a member of parliament proposed to engage in at Westminster would be treated on its merits by the Palace of Westminster authorities. I guess the decision would take into account the reputation of the given leisure activity in the eyes of the general public and how that might reflect on Westminster if mentioned in the press. Chess probably passes that test whereas games associated with gambling wouldn't.
Surrey Chess Archive: https://www.surreyrapidchess.org.uk
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Ian Thompson
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Re: Britbase Updates
The recently posted Hastings 1989/90 games have 10 games played by Erkki Pesonen in a Main tournament and 6 games played by him in a New Year tournament, followed by 6 games in the weekend congress.
The Main event ran from 29 December 1989 (not 28 December(*)) to 7 January 1990 (10 rounds) and the New Year event probably ran from 3 January 1990 to 7 January 1990 (assuming both it, and the preceding Christmas Special, were 5 round tournaments). They would both have been afternoon events, so he couldn't have played in both.
If those New Year games were played at that year's Hastings congress, my guess would be that they are from a Third Week tournament which would have fitted in between the end of the Main tournament and the start of the weekend congress. Tim Spanton might be able to confirm, as he was one of Erkki Pesonen's opponents.
(*) I played in Main A that year and my records show it started on 29 December. That's consistent with the BritBase file which shows Erkki playing 3 games in 1989 and 7 in 1990.
The Main event ran from 29 December 1989 (not 28 December(*)) to 7 January 1990 (10 rounds) and the New Year event probably ran from 3 January 1990 to 7 January 1990 (assuming both it, and the preceding Christmas Special, were 5 round tournaments). They would both have been afternoon events, so he couldn't have played in both.
If those New Year games were played at that year's Hastings congress, my guess would be that they are from a Third Week tournament which would have fitted in between the end of the Main tournament and the start of the weekend congress. Tim Spanton might be able to confirm, as he was one of Erkki Pesonen's opponents.
(*) I played in Main A that year and my records show it started on 29 December. That's consistent with the BritBase file which shows Erkki playing 3 games in 1989 and 7 in 1990.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Britbase Updates
I was there as well and played in the Xmas A. That was five rounds starting on 28th December and finishing as it did most years on January 1st. In those days, it had been normal for the Xmas tournament to start in the afternoon for the first round before reverting to the morning for later rounds. It saved an extra overnight in Hastings. That's consistent with the Main afternoon tournaments not starting until the next day because of space constraints. They did however switch the Xmas to the morning for all rounds whilst still at the Falaise as the number of participants expanded.Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 12:46 pmI played in Main A that year and my records show it started on 29 December.
It wasn't really possible to play both a morning and an afternoon event because of the possibility or probability of adjournments.
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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Britbase Updates
A 'miserable worm' - Nigel Short
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates
Many thanks, Gerard, I have added this to the 1920 British Championship file at BritBase.Gerard Killoran wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:05 pmBlack was local Edinburgh CC member https://www.chessscotland.com/documents ... son_jg.htm
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates
Many thanks, Ian and Roger, for your helpful comments about the dates and names of the subsidiary sections at Hastings. I quite often get these wrong as the details do not always appear in bulletins and elsewhere. For other congresses it is usually possible to discover the correct dates by reference to the "Forthcoming Events" features in both BCM and CHESS, or perhaps BCF Yearbooks which included a calendar for the following year, but it's not quite so straightforward when it comes to Hastings as such announcements are usually confined to stating the start and end dates of the congress as a whole.Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 12:46 pmThe recently posted Hastings 1989/90 games have 10 games played by Erkki Pesonen in a Main tournament and 6 games played by him in a New Year tournament, followed by 6 games in the weekend congress.
The Main event ran from 29 December 1989 (not 28 December(*)) to 7 January 1990 (10 rounds) and the New Year event probably ran from 3 January 1990 to 7 January 1990 (assuming both it, and the preceding Christmas Special, were 5 round tournaments). They would both have been afternoon events, so he couldn't have played in both.
If those New Year games were played at that year's Hastings congress, my guess would be that they are from a Third Week tournament which would have fitted in between the end of the Main tournament and the start of the weekend congress. Tim Spanton might be able to confirm, as he was one of Erkki Pesonen's opponents.
(*) I played in Main A that year and my records show it started on 29 December. That's consistent with the BritBase file which shows Erkki playing 3 games in 1989 and 7 in 1990.
I think I erred by changing the name of the Hastings Third Week tournament to the Hastings New Year tournament and have now changed it back. I've applied some other date amendments to the PGN file in line with your comments.
I'm in the process of adding files for every Hastings Congress. (You can see which ones have (and have not) been done on this page.) Over the next few weeks I hope to upload files for 1991/92 and following years up to the last year of the separate Premier and Challengers tournaments in 2003/04. Thereafter I shall continue to fill the remaining gaps both before and after those dates. Any help with details of dates for those tournaments would be greatly appreciated.
As regards finding Hastings games, the Premier was nearly always fully documented in a published bulletin (notable exceptions being 1939/40 (no doubt affected by WW2), 1947/48 and 1958/59 where surprisingly few games can be found). However, games from the next section down, latterly known as the Hastings Challengers and before that the Premier Reserves, have often been thin on the ground. This is a pity because it was often a strong tournament featuring future GMs and the games would be of some value. It would be good if significantly more of these games could be discovered though I'm not optimistic.
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates
I've now uploaded games and crosstables for the 1991/92 Hastings Congress at BritBase.
The 1991/92 Hastings Challengers crosstable is particularly poignant as it shows the late Colin Crouch heading a very strong field. He recorded a GM norm with a point to spare and qualified for the 1992/93 Premier. Colin died nearly ten years ago and is fondly remembered but I'm not sure I've seen specific mention of this outstanding result in the various obituaries at the time. I've also included Colin's own report on the tournament from the March 1992 CHESS and his annotation of his win vs Neverov, which I may as well append to this post...
The 1991/92 Hastings Challengers crosstable is particularly poignant as it shows the late Colin Crouch heading a very strong field. He recorded a GM norm with a point to spare and qualified for the 1992/93 Premier. Colin died nearly ten years ago and is fondly remembered but I'm not sure I've seen specific mention of this outstanding result in the various obituaries at the time. I've also included Colin's own report on the tournament from the March 1992 CHESS and his annotation of his win vs Neverov, which I may as well append to this post...
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John Saunders
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Re: Britbase Updates
An appeal: does anyone have (or have access to) a full crosstable for the 1992/93 Hastings Challengers? Steve Giddins has a copy of the 1992/93 Hastings bulletin but it doesn't feature a full crosstable of the Challengers; however, he thinks it possible that it may have appeared on pages that have become detached from his copy. I need this to help differentiate between Challengers games played in the 1992/93 tournament from those played in 1993/94 (for which I do have a crosstable). Currently the ChessBase Mega/BigBase database has games from these tournaments mixed up and with no details of dates or round numbers.
Steve tells me that the copy of the 1992/93 Hastings bulletin he has includes not one word about the Challengers, though it does include results of lower sections. This leads us to surmise that there might have been a separate bulletin for the 1992/93 Hastings Challengers. Was this the case? If anyone can shed light on this, or lend or send scans of such a bulletin, please get in touch.
Steve tells me that the copy of the 1992/93 Hastings bulletin he has includes not one word about the Challengers, though it does include results of lower sections. This leads us to surmise that there might have been a separate bulletin for the 1992/93 Hastings Challengers. Was this the case? If anyone can shed light on this, or lend or send scans of such a bulletin, please get in touch.
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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Britbase Updates
We now have all the moves of the following game - from Amos Burn's column:
A 'miserable worm' - Nigel Short