French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
LozCooper

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by LozCooper » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:18 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Jonathan Rogers wrote: But still no one knows whether the selection committees of 2007 or 2008 deselected him on chess playing merits or, at least partly, because of Turin. And when I say "because of Turin" I mean to include the possibility that, without mentioning Turin or any kind of suspension on any individual, the Committee might suddenly and coincidentally have taken into account additional criteria when taking selection decisions, such as whether the individual would be a good ambassdor for the country and could be relied on (say) not to hit anyone.
I have a memory that Peter Sowray in his tenure as International Director rewrote the guidelines. This was after Turin, so he had to address the Bermuda party issue as well as complaints from a couple of GMs before the event that they appeared to have been overlooked for selection.

A quick Google failed to unearth the paper. It was written in a manner that would not unduly restrict future selectors but a couple of points sprung to mind, one was that recent activity was a criterion, so you couldn't play just a couple of games and expect to be considered. Another was that past conduct could be taken into account.
"Players representing England are expected to conduct themselves appropriately, to make a positive contribution to the team, and not to behave in such a way that discredits the reputation of the ECF or of the game of chess. The Panel may consider a player's past conduct when making a selection."

Michael Jones
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:37 pm

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Michael Jones » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:32 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:I heard the above just before a league match where I was not playing, after I had demonstrated the alleged French technique of passing on information. I then realised that when I wanted to look at the match to silently cheer on my club colleagues, I had to either not stop, or to hesitate behind every player...
Good point - but (if the allegation is correct) Feller would only have needed the assistance at a few critical points in the game; a 2600+ player would have no problem finding the right moves himself the rest of the time. So presumably Feller would have had some sort of signal to Hauchard that he needed a move, and would only have been watching Hauchard's movements then; the rest of the time Hauchard could do what he liked, provided he was near enough to spot such a signal when it was made - and since he was a fairly strong player himself, he'd have had a good idea of when the position was likely to require it and be looking out for the signal then.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 22607
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:54 pm

Michael Jones wrote: So presumably Feller would have had some sort of signal to Hauchard that he needed a move, and would only have been watching Hauchard's movements then; the rest of the time Hauchard could do what he liked, provided he was near enough to spot such a signal when it was made - and since he was a fairly strong player himself, he'd have had a good idea of when the position was likely to require it and be looking out for the signal then.
Chess events have sequentially number boards and it's possible to stand either side of a chess board. This defines a low tech signalling system if you combine it with international postal style move recording. You wonder whether it hasn't been used before. In mitigation, historically if you were strong enough to get by with help once or twice a game, you would have been too strong for many people to give useful advice.

You wouldn't need a particularly high tech method to thwart this method in team events with a large number of arbiters. Just have the mobile phones of the players and critically non playing captains in the arbiter's possession during play.

IanDavis
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:41 pm

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by IanDavis » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:01 pm

The big question now is how to regulate the behaviour of spectators. Shuld a moving walkway be installed to prevent unecessary dawdling?

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 10803
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:42 pm

Maybe all games will have to be played inside Sensitive Compartmented Information Facilities?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12810675

Otherwise known as "blue tents".

Michael Jones
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:37 pm

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Michael Jones » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:09 pm

Isn't that roughly want they do in Bilbao? Although in this case the aim is the opposite - to let information get out (ie let people watch the games), but to stop it getting in (stop the players receiving any outside signals). Maybe put the rest of the world in a SCIF and chess players outside it?

Ian Kingston
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:16 pm
Location: Sutton Coldfield
Contact:

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Ian Kingston » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:54 am

The story has been picked up by the Independent. As usual with the non-specialist press, some of the details have been garbled.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon
Contact:

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:01 am

Warren Kingston wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but was there any money at stake or did they cheat just to win?
The specific allegations concern last year's Olympiad at Khanty Mansisyk. Feller won the gold medal for the best individual performance on Board 5. For the first time, the board prizes comprised cash as well as medals.

That was controversial in itself. At an Olympiad, a player may have to put his team's best interests before his own. GM Mateusz Bartel of Poland would have won the gold medal had he not played in the last round, but as he played and only drew, he finished second to Feller.

There are unproven suggestions that Feller and Hauchard had cheated in a similar fashion in earlier events.

Even if there's no money at stake in the particular event at which a player cheats, he stands to obtain an indirect financial benefit. By boosting his rating, he will potentially gain more lucrative invitations than would otherwise have been the case.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon
Contact:

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:11 am

Ian Kingston wrote:The story has been picked up by the Independent. As usual with the non-specialist press, some of the details have been garbled.
Malcolm Pein covered the story in his Telegraph column yesterday. See http://www.chess.co.uk/twic/malcolmpein ... f-cheating.

The Independent article isn't quite right about how Hauchard allegedly communicated the moves to Feller, but otherwise it seems pretty accurate to me.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 22607
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:38 am

David Sedgwick wrote:The Independent article isn't quite right about how Hauchard allegedly communicated the moves to Feller, but otherwise it seems pretty accurate to me.
The Independent suggest the code used 64 boards, whereas the FFE noted that you could make it work with 4. Unless there's eye-witness evidence, the precise detail of code may not be known.

One could speculate that the players had tested and refined the system prior to the Olympiad.


(edit) The Telegraph has the story as well.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... andal.html

It shows you cannot rely on newspapers for totally reliable factual information, since there are a couple of distortions in the Telegraph piece ( going into Edward Winter mode)
Telegraph wrote:Unable to look at their contents due to a privacy ruling,
The point was that the FFE, or rather its vice-president could and did look at the contents. They were just not allowed to disclose them in public. In my mind the message content as described is the key indictment. If they were just chatting about the games in real time, there would have been no need to mask the moves as telephone number lookalikes.
Telegraph wrote: Mr Feller won three games at the tournament,
Five according to
http://www.ugra-chess.com/persres.php?i ... nt=1&ln=en
Ok he was on plus three.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 22607
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:16 pm

Warren Kingston wrote: He may have got a 2600+ rating by cheating in EVERY game he has played?? So, actually, I might be better than him.
That might be the case, but unlikely. The point being made is that if you can play to GM standard without assistance, then getting a suggestion a handful of times a game is going to get you a few more Elo points, just because your results will improve. The supposed communication method wouldn't be feasible if you had to use it for every move.

Sean Hewitt

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Sean Hewitt » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:18 pm

IanDavis wrote:The big question now is how to regulate the behaviour of spectators. Shuld a moving walkway be installed to prevent unecessary dawdling?
Or simply don't allow them in?

Alan Burke

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Alan Burke » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:40 pm

Sean .. although probably written in jest, that is not as such a unique idea as you might think.
At last year's Blackpool chess congress, the British Scrabble Championships were also taking place in another room, so I just wandered in to have a look. However, no sooner had I entered the room when a lady organiser came to me and asked what I was doing ? I just said I was interested in what was happening and wanted to watch (Obviously the 'protocol' in the room was similar to that at a chess event and thus I had made no sound when entering so as to not disturb the players.)
However, the lady organiser just said that no spectators were allowed and I should leave immediately !!!
Surely by allowing people to watch the games they would be advertising their hobby to any others who might be interested - and that is why chess should never follow that lead.

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 9308
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:57 pm

Alan Burke wrote:Surely by allowing people to watch the games they would be advertising their hobby to any others who might be interested - and that is why chess should never follow that lead.
At the Olympiad, you can watch all the games online anyway, regardless of whether they're in the room or not. I can't comment on the Online presence of the Scrabble event.

Sean Hewitt

Re: French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

Post by Sean Hewitt » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:48 pm

Alan Burke wrote:Sean .. although probably written in jest..
Au contraire.

Here at the European Championships in Aix-les-Bains spectators are not allowed. Players, arbiters, organisers are issued with accreditation and if you're not wearing it, you're not allowed in.

Going further (and some of you will love this) there is a one way system. If a player leaves the playing venue (which includes toilets and a smoking area) they are not allowed back in to the playing venue.

Post Reply