London Central YMCA (aka CentYMCA) Chess Club

[Christopher Kreuzer]

I believe the Mike that Dominique mentions as passing on is in fact Michael Crewdson. I received an email from Mike Wills two weeks ago, and he has also a facebook page.

I was sent an e-mail from Ray Cannon pointing this out as well. That e-mail included the following from Mike Wills:

"I have vivid (and very pleasant) memories of the 1972 Karpov simul which George Szaszvari refers to. (Indeed I have masses of vivid and very pleasant memories of the London CentYMCA Chess Club and its members)." (Mike Wills)

Ray also pointed out that the Bd5 bit should be corrected as follows:

"It was after 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 d6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6 5 Nc3 a6 6 Bg5 Nbd7 7 Bc4 Qa5 8 Qd2 b5? and only then 9 Bd5! that I used to like demonstrating the various advantageous lines of play. This is noted in the first Bayswater Weekend Tournament bulletin way back more than 40 years ago." (Ray Cannon)

We now return you to your normal programming.

[George Szaszvari]

I believe the Mike that Dominique mentions as passing on is in fact Michael Crewdson. I received an email from Mike Wills two weeks ago, and he has also a facebook page.

I was sent an e-mail from Ray Cannon pointing this out as well. That e-mail included the following from Mike Wills:

"I have vivid (and very pleasant) memories of the 1972 Karpov simul which George Szaszvari refers to. (Indeed I have masses of vivid and very pleasant memories of the London CentYMCA Chess Club and its members)." (Mike Wills)

Ray also pointed out that the Bd5 bit should be corrected as follows:

"It was after 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 d6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6 5 Nc3 a6 6 Bg5 Nbd7 7 Bc4 Qa5 8 Qd2 b5? and only then 9 Bd5! that I used to like demonstrating the various advantageous lines of play. This is noted in the first Bayswater Weekend Tournament bulletin way back more than 40 years ago." (Ray Cannon)

We now return you to your normal programming.

Aaaarrr, forrrty yeeearrs ago....aaaaarrrr! You crinkly old codger, you!

Seriously, though, Ray's line is another variant that happened in a game between Yugoslavs that was found in most
opening books of the time. Ray showed me quite a few nuances like this one back in those days, and, iirc we also
looked at 8...e6 9.0-0-0 b5! 10.Bd5 exd5 11.exd with white on the attack. Wasn't there a Tal-Matanovic game in
which black successfully defended a similar position, if not this one? But as previously stated 10...b4 is best after
8...e6 9.0-0-0 b5 10.Bd5. [Note that if 9.0-0 black shouldn't play 9...b5? look up Korchnoi's games; he played these
positions really well] I suspect many players tried 10.Bd5 because the maneuver was widely published as the refutation
of 8...b5? and does look pretty plausible even a move later. In one of my feeble attempts to qualify for the British
Championship when players had to make their own arrangements on when and where to play (I did this for a couple
of years and then stuck to playing in the annual British Ch Major Open whenever I could) I was paired with a young
Jonathon Kinlay in 1972 who turned up for our game at YMCA one evening in his Dulwich College blazer and iirc promptly
went down this whole line (Kinlay white) after 8.Qd2 e6 9.0-0-0 b5 10.Bd5 b4 11.Bxa8 bxc3 12.bxc3 Nb6 13.Bc6+??
Bd7 14.Bxd7+ Kxd7 15.Nb3?? Qa3+ 16.Kb1 Na4 and it's all over. Obviously white blundered at the critical points. Charles
de Villiers tried to prove that 12...Nc5 was better than ...Nb6 but I can't recall whether we came to any conclusion
about that. I had the pleasure of meeting up again socially with Jonathon Kinlay years later after he gained his IM title
and had more or less retired from competitive chess.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

I had the pleasure of meeting up again socially with Jonathon Kinlay years later after he gained his IM title and had more or less retired from competitive chess.

I don't think Kinlay (who I had never heard of until you mentioned him) got an IM title (though I suppose it could be correspondence chess). He has a Wikipedia article, but more for his finance work than his chess, if this is the same person:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Kinlay

His FIDE rating card (which shows him as 2220) is here:

http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=401919

In the list, he is marked as inactive:

http://ratings.fide.com/seek.phtml?idco ... y&offset=0

Again, assuming these are all the same person (which I presume they are).

[George Szaszvari]

I had the pleasure of meeting up again socially with Jonathon Kinlay years later after he gained his IM title and had more or less retired from competitive chess.

I don't think Kinlay (who I had never heard of until you mentioned him) got an IM title (though I suppose it could be correspondence chess). He has a Wikipedia article, but more for his finance work than his chess, if this is the same person:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Kinlay

His FIDE rating card (which shows him as 2220) is here:

http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=401919

In the list, he is marked as inactive:

http://ratings.fide.com/seek.phtml?idco ... y&offset=0

Again, assuming these are all the same person (which I presume they are).

Yep, that's the same bloke who authored "Sicilian: Keres Attack"...Kinlay had a typical all out "attack at every
opportunity" style. I thought he got IM, but seems not...I do know he had great promise, but evidently used his
brains and energy to do something more likely to pay the bills! Thanks for the clarification. It's a good job you are
around to keep a watchful eye on the musings of this old fool!

[George Szaszvari]

Just been watching a TV program about Papua New Guinea which jogged my memory banks about
a young chessplayer called Stuart Fancy who used to hang out at London CentYMCA decades past.
Stuart moved out to Papua New Guinea in the early 70s and he visited London for a short time a
couple of years, or so, after migrating, and I recall that we had an interesting conversation about
his migration to that mighty interesting part of the world. It looks like he has been active in chess
in Port Moresby and representing PNG in Olympiads. Anyone here know more about Stuart since
then or old enough to reminisce about his earlier years at YMCA?

[Daryl Taylor]

I was given to understand that Stuart had gone awol from the TAVR and that some military policemen were keen to make his acquaintance. He was also active in a Trotskyist political faction. These factors seemed to be instrumental in his sudden decision to emigrate.

Of course, I could be completely wrong...

[Simon Spivack]

I was given to understand that Stuart had gone awol from the TAVR and that some military policemen were keen to make his acquaintance. He was also active in a Trotskyist political faction. These factors seemed to be instrumental in his sudden decision to emigrate.

Of course, I could be completely wrong...

I can't be the only one to remember that Stuart sealed "resigns" in a totally lost position in one of his games at the London U21 Championship more than thirty years ago. His opponent, PG, had to commute in from Brighton, as I recall, to discover this when he opened the envelope. The organisers rightly threw Stuart out of the tournament.

[Jon D'Souza-Eva]

There is a picture of Mr Fancy here: http://www.auschess.org.au/oceania/png/ ... gplays.htm
The blurb next to it says he won the "British Junior Championship", but he doesn't appear in John Saunders' now very complete list of past British Champions.

A more recent picture can be found here: http://chessexpress.blogspot.com/2007_1 ... chive.html.

[George Szaszvari]

I was given to understand that Stuart had gone awol from the TAVR and that some military policemen were keen to make his acquaintance. He was also active in a Trotskyist political faction. These factors seemed to be instrumental in his sudden decision to emigrate.

Of course, I could be completely wrong...

I can't be the only one to remember that Stuart sealed "resigns" in a totally lost position in one of his games at the London U21 Championship more than thirty years ago. His opponent, PG, had to commute in from Brighton, as I recall, to discover this when he opened the envelope. The organisers rightly threw Stuart out of the tournament.

Stuart was well known as a mischievous mixed up kid, but he had his good sides too, and knowing more about
his background might explain his more exuberant juvenile antics. I guess he saw things spiralling a bit outta
control and decided to find direction in a New World. Probably a good move in his case. I've known a few
supposedly "respectable" chessplayers pull some pretty dirty tricks on their opponents, but we rarely get to
hear about such things outside of private company in the club room or pub, and probably just as well. Anyway,
it's fun reminiscing about these characters, so keep those memories rollin' in.

[Simon Brown]

Stuart is a few years older than me, from the same neck of the woods, and got up to all sorts of mischief from age 12 to 18 plus. But a nice guy, no mean player, and he always had a lot of time for me and my Dad, who did some thngs in Kent Junior chess at the time (apart from being my chauffeur). As for "British Junior Champion", I think he won the London U14 in about 1972, but never the British. A bit of journalistic licence, no doubt.

[Gary Kenworthy]

Hi,
My First post: some info on the creation of the Barbican in 1990. It did not come from Centymca, for instance, there was a period with London Central - 1988 to 1990, when the club, now at the Barbican collapsed. It went completely under and was wrapped-up. The strong players prepared to start at new clubs for the new season. Cavendish was the intended main beneficiary.
Much of the origins of the club was associated with the bad recession, the rise in rents, people doing the extra hours at their jobs, and skipping games. It was a bad time. The London Commerical League and the London Banks League were declining - most rapidly. Thus, a guy called John McAllister had proposed to merge the BT club and the BP club (both nearby) to move to these better premises and worked with Brian Sammes. John approached me (I was a former CentYMCA first team captain - and with many other clubs (e.g Bradford National Club, starting in 1975, and some earlier).
John McAllister's idea was could I get the players from London Central back, and obtain many new ones. The core of the jobs went to Neil Carr (critical one) - could we have a div 1 london league place - take the London Central spot, else we fold at the top. With that done, more dependencies followed, Jon Ady was assigned to win the National Club, I was self assigned with winning the London League (we all achieved our objectives- two of the BT players, C J Morrison and the J Sharp were the last two games to finish in our 6.5 - 5.5 win over Kings Head in the last match - our prior match, a 6.5-5.5 win over Wood Green was my lowest board - I was on board 9 beating a 216 player... those were the days!). I was given the chair of this new organisation, and typed all these strategy plans up.
I also was to recruit many new players. One of the first, from the ailing Islington, over that Summer was IM Craig Pritchett (BCF 235). I also went heavily to the Universities- London - e.g. Andrew Ledger - but the Oxbridge players were my main targets over the next five years - e.g Matthew Piper from Oxford in 1993. Also I went around Essex - Jon Rodgers was a great find. etc etc. (please see his post- which prompted this reply).
What had brought down the prior club down was rent costs. Brain Sammes (he was key on a number of things, and had a flat in the place). He approached the Barbican and negotiated a big reduction, this was given on the condition that a Junior club was set up on Saturdays, ( I later extended this two two clubs). These went on for a number of years, and besides doing the all the training myself, Bob Wade did many programmes with me, plus Danny Kopec, Jon Rodgers and Julian Hodgson did some others.
Soon the other officials dropped away and John McAllister and myself had all but the auditor post, between us. Meaning, I had 16 posts, (e.g lower leagues in the Middlesex League) mainly captaincies, with the Barbican and other clubs. (I soon went past 100 man years of chess admin roles - I think I missed hitting 200 years before I retired).
By September 1993 the 4*NCL, was launched at the Barbican, we had only Craig Thomson on bd4,(left 1994 to return to Scotland (brought in by Colin Crouch)) was left by the time of our first 4*NCL loss to Bristol. Centymca guys like Will Watson, Ian Watson, Simon Brown, Neil Carr, Jon Ady etc probably never played 4*NCL. Let alone Barbican. Whilst other names played for Maidstone and Wood Green, as example clubs/ teams.
With the "Chessathon" over four floors of the Barbican, (we had many GMs from the 1993 World Championship in the Strand over giving simuls etc), The European Club Cup at the Barbican, September 1993 is a chapter in itself...
Hope this helps - best regards Gary Kenworthy

[Malcolm Clarke]

A while ago I submitted the posting below relating to the origins of London Central. I believe that Gary's description is consistent with what I have said here. However I think it is definitely true, that we left the London Central YMCA building in 1987. In the 1987/88 season I played one match for London Central (in the first season after leaving the London Central YMCA building). I was playing for London Central 2 against Stock Exchange 2 in London League Division 5 and our team was H Tebbs, R Brennan, E Tweeddale, J Seymour, Y Tello, M Crewdson, M Clarke, R Conway, A Kennaway and J Fiallos. That season our first team finished 3rd in division 2, the second team finished 2nd in division 5 and the 3rd team third in division 7, and I still have the London League results for the latter part of that season.

I also remember Chris Morrison (who I believe also played in the London Commercial League) applying to join the club.

I also came across a photograph of the Barbican team that won the National Club Championship in 1990/91, and believe that in the early days of London Central the likes of John Rusz and Bob Collins were also on the committee.

I have not kept very much of my CentYMCA material, but I have come across two letters from Andrew Martin, that were circulated to members. The first one was written in 1985 prior to the EGM (already mentioned on this forum), gave Andrew's view on the situation, and the second in 1987 advising us that our best alternative was to move away from the YMCA. This, and the fact that I have BCF/ECF yearbooks going back 20 years has given me a better picture of how the evolution of London Central YMCA to Barbican took place.

Following the EGM, the players who remained with CentYMCA paid a levy on top of their YMCA subscription. As some players did not want to pay a levy in top of what they already thought was a costly membership for what they got out of it, then instead of operating with six teams in the London League, only four were entered. If things had remained unchanged we would have been playing in divisions 1, 2,3 ,4, 6 and 7, but we ended up playing in divisions 1, 3, 6 and 7 (if my memory is correct).

We then remained at the YMCA paying the levy for two years, and had two secretaries Mike Mozouros and Alison Martin, and continued to run four teams, but it was evident from Andrew's letter, that if we carried on playing at the YMCA for the 1987/88 season we would have a hard job even running one team.

The suggestion was that we renamed ourselves London Central, and played our London League matches at Bishopsgate until we found ourselves a new venue. However I think that we found ourselves the Barbican Centre fairly quickly, as I can remember visiting there before moving out of London in 1988.

Looking at the National club championship results for the 1989/90 season I saw the name London Central appear, which seems to confirm that we played under this name from 1987/88 to 1989/90. Also contrary to what I originally thought, we ran four London League teams during our first season as London Central

However by the 1990/91 season the name was changed from London Central to Barbican, and Barbican were also London League champions in 1990/91. The impression I had was that Brian Sammes who appeared to play an important part in the move to the Barbican was keen on the name change.

As for the link between Barbican and Cavendish other people are better placed to provide information. One thing I do know is that in the 2004 yearbook included Barbican's NCL results for the previous season, but they were not listed amongst the list of London League clubs.

[Jonathan Rogers]

"As for the link between Barbican and Cavendish other people are better placed to provide information. One thing I do know is that in the 2004 yearbook included Barbican's NCL results for the previous season, but they were not listed amongst the list of London League clubs."

Briefly - Barbican 4NCL was formed as a separate Club in 1999 (though with a large overlap in membership). Thus when the London Club folded in 2000, and most of its active London League players switched to Cavendish, the 4NCL Club continued unaffected. Thus the 4NCL results referred to above were the results of the Barbican 4NCL Club, which has only ever played 4NCL and related competitions, and never in local leagues.

I try to make a point of calling the Barbican teams "Barbican 4NCL" and you will see that this is the Club's name when you click on the 4NCL website. Journalists ought to be careful to do that too, though even I sometimes just say "Barbican" for the sake of simplicity.

[Jonathan Rogers]

Incidentally, a belated welcome to Gary on this forum. We must have been on the phone every few days about Barbican matters throughout much of 1995-1997 (those were the days, pre e.mail ...)

To answer your final point, Gary - Will still hasn't played 4NCL (for anyone), and is one of only two British GMs (remaining active since the 4NCL started in 1993) not to have done so.

[Richard Bates]

To answer your final point, Gary - Will still hasn't played 4NCL (for anyone), and is one of only two British GMs (remaining active since the 4NCL started in 1993) not to have done so.

Go on then, enlighten us...