British Championships Chess Coaching

National developments, strategies and ideas.
Locked
Paul Cooksey

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:54 pm

Sabrina Chevannes wrote:I AM ACCREDITED
That couldn't be clearer. I would prefer to look to the future. But it seems like we are going to be bogged down in this indefinitely unless we get some clarity or someone pulls the plug. I would not argue with the latter if those with a more detailed understanding think this will get worse.. But generally I think the former is healthier. So:

@Sabrina Since you are accredited, why are you not on the list?

LozCooper

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by LozCooper » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Simon Dixon wrote: [I find it incredible that you can accuse me of being patronising and wrong for stating a fact, I reiterate, you are not on the list of ECF accredited coaches. You also hint that the ECF and Mr Martin is trying to sabotage you. This is not the attitude I would expect from someone who intends to teach children. You say you have the required documents, then it is up to you to send them to the ECF.
It's about time people laid off Sabrina and stop these pointless attacks. This is someone that is attempting to good for English chess and it appears to me that some people have nothing better to do than to to criticise at every opportunity. You are judging her without knowing the full facts or without seemingly having any interest in hearing them.

Maybe those people should take a long hard look at themselves and ask what they've done for English chess before taking some perverse pleasure in undermining her. It's very noticeable that the people who have made a positive contribution tend to be the ones who show support because they no how demoralising it is to deal with the unnecessary aggravation.

Maybe you could also take time to reflect on the damage to morale you are causing not only to Sabrina but to those who work with her and those who may lose out in the future if the coaching is not available. If your sole wish is to damage English chess then by all means carry on but don't expect a sympathetic audience.

Simon Dixon
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:11 pm

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Simon Dixon » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:02 am

you patronised me and told me a way to go about being accredited, and I reiterate, that if you had read the previous posts, I AM ACCREDITED, as little as that means. And again... I have sent them to the ECF, numerous times. Gosh! zzzzzz
Oh I see, me advising you and trying to be helpful is what you see as patronising. And you keep saying you are accredited, but you are still not on the ECF list. Right, I think I will leave it there, as the saying goes, if you want something done, do it yourself.

Chris J Greatorix
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:56 pm

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Chris J Greatorix » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:09 am

I would advise Sabrina to do her coaching at the analysis room, and see what happens. Frankly the analysis room IS A PLACE OF COACHING BY DEFINITION, and every Tom Dick and Harry often passes over a random board and suggests possible variations to play. I highly doubt that Tom Dick or Harry are CRB checked or an accredited coach, but I'm sure the partcipants in the game they are advising on will be grateful at spotting where went wrong and how to do better in the future. Whether they choose to tip Tom Dick or Harry is up to them. Don't forget that if Sabrina and her client wanted to do coaching in the analysis room then Chess for joe public wins, since it seems they are free to listen in (which is why most private tuition is done away from prying eyes anyway).
Haven't you all got anything better to do with your lifes, maybe use your energy to volunteer to British Chess?

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 17941
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:30 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: And the article in the latest CHESS from Eddie Dearing about how to prepare using databases. Who needs a coach?
Many of the more "senior" members of British chess are almost totally uncoached. That's not to say that we haven't benefited from "working with other players" on openings, middle games and typical endings. Particularly with the computer software available for the last twenty years and the options of on-line play, I suspect it is possible to become quite good ( but perhaps not quite good enough) by private work and study.

Keith Arkell
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:10 am

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Keith Arkell » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:49 am

Hi everyone.

I was delighted to be invited by Sabrina to be a part of CCA, and join her team of coaches for the British Championships.Her talent and enthusiasm are self-evident, and she has fully earned the positive and supportive postings on here by,for example, Krishna, Kevin,Andrew Camp,Amnon,Ian,Jim and Loz.

While I find coaching to be a rewarding activity, I have spent most of my chess life playing the game rather than teaching it or writing about it, and receipt of good conditions for South Wales,Coulsdon and Sunningdale mean my high level of activity will continue through July and August. I didn't receive a very good offer for the British though,and was originally going to take a time-out during that period.

I currently have one pupil - an adult - and it has simply never occured to me to bother with ECF accreditation,CRB clearance and the like. Having said that I am in 100% agreement with the ECF position on these matters,and with postings here by Alex McFarlane in his official capacity. I am currently talking with Sabrina about the best way to go about acquiring these documents for future use if I am to get more involved in working with the CCA,and if anyone can give me any further advice then please P.M. me.

I do think though that the ECF needs to apply its principles more consistently.I am surprised that when I was a coach at the European Junior Championships in Peniscola in 2002 there was no need to be CRB cleared, and that would appear to still be the case.

Can I just finish by asking people to stop posting so aggressively towards Sabrina on this thread. There are a few matters of protocol which have,correctly,been raised and cleared up, but that having been said, choice rather than monopoly must be a good thing.
Last edited by Keith Arkell on Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Simon Dixon
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:11 pm

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Simon Dixon » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:05 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote: And the article in the latest CHESS from Eddie Dearing about how to prepare using databases. Who needs a coach?
Many of the more "senior" members of British chess are almost totally uncoached. That's not to say that we haven't benefited from "working with other players" on openings, middle games and typical endings. Particularly with the computer software available for the last twenty years and the options of on-line play, I suspect it is possible to become quite good ( but perhaps not quite good enough) by private work and study.
Bobby Fischer did not have a chess coach, and he became quite good. I would question the wisdom of having a strong master or GM strength coach if you are a club player. The best way to learn "IMO" is from players who are a notch or 2 above you, in post match analysis. Private coaching can be very expensive and I fail to see what can be learned in a 1 or 2 hour session, considering you can spend your entire life learning about chess. At the end of the day, all you need is practice, and lots of it, nobody can correct your mistakes at the board, only you can learn to concentrate and calculate, assess and evaluate, and eat lots of polo's.

User avatar
Carl Hibbard
Posts: 5698
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:05 pm
Location: Evesham

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:45 am

We do seem to be repeating a lot of the same points and the whole thread is becoming a little undignified so perhaps it is time to move on to subjects new please
Last edited by Carl Hibbard on Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: A slight edit, I was referring to the 'whole' thread!
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

benedgell
Posts: 1252
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: Somerset
Contact:

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by benedgell » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:47 am

'British Championships Chess Coaching'- 1 decent idea, 15 pages of criticism and petty arguments.
'National Girls' Chess Championships- Success'- 1 decent idea, 7 pages of criticism and petty arguments.

Sabrina, I'd start ignoring the posts on here. You're always going to get some naysayers determined to cause an argument, and every attempt to defend yourself will be met with another critical reply. At the end of the day the people who's opinions matter to you clearly appreciate the work you are doing.

E Michael White
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by E Michael White » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:48 am

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sabrina Chevannes wrote:I AM ACCREDITED
That couldn't be clearer.
Are you sure about that ? There seems to be two lists

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=588#ecfac

http://www.ecfcoaching.org.uk/

There are more on the first list ! Usually when organisations maintain two lists of the same thing it demonstrates inefficiencies which challenge the integrity of the information on the lists.

No one seems to have mentioned being an accredited ECF coach lasts for 3 years only, whereupon it may be renewed, according to the regulations on the ECF website. It doesn’t say whether the coach should apply or whether the ECF will issue a reminder asking for the necessary documentation.

Lara Barnes conjectures that Sabrina’s and her own CRB clearance may have expired. The regulations on the ECF website do not speak of expiring CRB certificates but point out that when renewing accreditation the coach must hold a CRB clearance obtained within three years. It seems possible to apply for and gain accreditation with a CRB clearance say 1 year earlier and accreditation will last for 3 years not until the CRB clearance is 3 years old.

I expect what has happened here is that Sabrina’s accreditation has expired and neither she nor the ECF have sought to renew it yet. Other coaches may be in the same position. If accreditation involves the issue of a certificate or other document it should probably say when it expires and how to renew it.
Last edited by E Michael White on Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

Alan Burke

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alan Burke » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:05 am

In reply to a question of mine following Sabrina's post about her having to waste £600 so 'nit-pickers' (her words not mine) did not complain about her using the analysis room; Loz Cooper replied .... "The original plan was to coach at people's accommodation and maybe hire a meeting room for one or two group sessions. She now feels obliged to hire a meeting room for all of her coaching to avoid any further accusations."

However, that reply still does not explain how it can be the fault of the 'nit-pickers' that this £600 has been spent when the coaching sessions were always planned to be either in private accomodation or a meeting room and would have had to be spent irrespective of peoples' views about the analysis room, which Sabrina apparently never planned to use anyway.

LozCooper

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by LozCooper » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:13 am

Alan Burke wrote:In reply to a question of mine following Sabrina's post about her having to waste £600 so 'nit-pickers' (her words not mine) did not complain about her using the analysis room; Loz Cooper replied .... "The original plan was to coach at people's accommodation and maybe hire a meeting room for one or two group sessions. She now feels obliged to hire a meeting room for all of her coaching to avoid any further accusations."

However, that reply still does not explain how it can be the fault of the 'nit-pickers' that this £600 has been spent when the coaching sessions were always planned to be either in private accomodation or a meeting room and would have had to be spent irrespective of peoples' views about the analysis room, which Sabrina apparently never planned to use anyway.
Would it be asking too much for you to stop playing detective and accept that whatever the rights and wrongs of this thread that it would be far more productive to wish her well and hope that the coaching is a success?

Jovanka Houska
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:58 am

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Jovanka Houska » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:40 am

Why don't you all turn the scrutiny the other way, if sabrina says she is accredited and has the necessary documentation to prove it. Lets trust her and ask the question: So Why is Sabrina not on the list?
Another point, is that where are all the top coaches on these lists? Why are the top trainers not there e.g. Nigel Short, a renowned trainer as well as player who accompanied David Howell to the world junior? If being ECF accredited is THE judging standard then why have the best coaches and trainers not been approached to join and offered help with things like the CRB...
Secondly telling juniors and other improving players that a trainer is not needed is very dangerous advice. Anyone who is anyone in the chess world have all had training.
I am sure if one offered this negative kind of advice in countries like China and Russia, you would just be laughed at. In order to be good at chess, just like in any sport you would need to apply yourself with strict discipline. This is much much easier with a trainer to guide your way.
This is where initiatives like the CCA step in, by giving juniors a chance to have reasonably priced training. Sabrina has also set up a fund in order to help those less advantaged which you are all free to donate to. http://www.chevanneschessacademy.com/sponsorship.html
In time we wish to hold regular monthly classes for our juniors including the occaisional master classes with our elite and simuls like the ones Leonard Barden used to organise. For this we need help either through donating venues for us, raising sponsorship or just volunteers. Lets see who is willing to actually do something for English chess. I bet you I can predict who wont and instead will tap negative things behind their keyboard.
As a footnote, a free venue for training at the British would have meant that we broke even with the costs, as it is Sabrina will make a heavy loss for the in-tournament training not inspiring to run this kind of venture again. You tell me if that is good for junior chess.
Jovanka

John Upham
Posts: 4270
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by John Upham » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:45 am

E Michael White wrote: There are more on the first list !
You are correct.

Tony Robson is listed although he was reported:

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?p=8194 as having passed away.

I will inform the ECF Office.
Last edited by John Upham on Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChessNew
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 8771
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: British Championships Chess Coaching

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:50 am

jhouska wrote:So Why is Sabrina not on the list?
What probably happened: The CRB check that the ECF Office knew about had expired at some point after the three year period, and thus Sabrina lost her status as an accredited coach, even though she has numerous other CRBs for her work through CSC. If the ECF don't know about a coach holding a CRB, then they have no choice but to remove their status as accredited. It would be up to both the Office to request a new CRB from the coach, and Sabrina to submit it.
Keith Arkell wrote: I do think though that the ECF needs to apply its principles more consistently.I am surprised that when I was a coach at the European Junior Championships in Peniscola in 2002 there was no need to be CRB cleared, and that would appear to still be the case.
Was this a legal necessity back in 2002?

Locked