Appeal for Board Support

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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Steve Rooney
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Steve Rooney » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:06 pm

Andrew F's statement strikes me as very clear and adequate.

In contrast ...
Ernie Lazenby wrote:It has been mentioned that CJ is going to fall on his sword. That is very sad and personally I get no pleasure from that if indeed he does so. I had hoped he could sort the mess out, which after all he created, and move on doing an excellent job promoting chess. If that is not possible then sadly doing the honourable thing may be the only option.
... is simply not credible given that this thread has been used overtly to villify the president and promote that precise outcome.

Like others I am a reluctant poster to this thread since I do not think it serves any purpose. If people use this forum to repeatedly condemn individuals who are either not members, or who choose not to engage in a public discussion, it brings the medium into disrepute and means that fair-minded individuals will engage less or walk away entirely. Time for the arbiters to rule?

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:21 pm

Steve Rooney wrote:Time for the arbiters to rule?
That is, if they have not already left the building in disgust.

As to discussing persons who are not members of this forum, I think that RDK was established an exception to this rule a long time ago. We like to think that someone senior from The Times will one day think "why do we employ this guy?"

There is no conflict in calling for CJ to resign unless he clears this mess up, and then saying that he is doing the right thing if he does the former (and that we regret that a very promising start as President should be ending like this).

If we do need to look for alternative Presidents, it would be better if he announced his decision to resign asap.

Steve Rooney
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Steve Rooney » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:04 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:BTW Steve where were you in condemning the vast amount of adverse comments and personal attacks on the former President or are you selective in your moralising.He was not a member of this forum and thus had no right of reply.
Ernie, I certainly did not support the personal attacks on the former president, nor the many unfair comments on the retiring junior director either.

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:36 pm

Andrew Farthing wrote:(2) Personal comments, including blogs, forums and Twitter - These are remarks made outside a formal editorial framework (and therefore outside the scope of the PCC). Much as it may deplore insulting or false statements made by individuals about ECF officials - and regrettably this incident is far from being a unique example of this - the Federation cannot be expected to make official public responses regarding the individual comments in such cases. To respond to one would risk the ECF's being committed to responding to every insulting or inaccurate personal remark or being accused through its silence of agreement with the view expressed.
Andrew, are you really saying that because the ECF has been remiss in the past they should continue to be so - a sort of two wrongs make a right?

Can I ask how many other officials' livelihoods have been put at risk by statements in the past?

I doubt if anything before is as significant as this. I have also expressed to you privately that if the ECF had a code of conduct and an ethics committee then I would have expected things to have progressed automatically without my involvement.

I think that your answer is insensitive and totally ignores the gravity of the situation.

Perhaps if the ECF had been more proactive in the past the chances of any such incident re-occurring would have been reduced.

Can I also say that the comments made were not directed at individuals but to the organisers as a group. That on its own makes things different from any previous matter.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:30 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:CJ could have put a stop to this by asking his friend,BTW is that relationship clear or an assumption by people ....
The RDK twitter feed might give you an answer to that one. On the 10th May, for example, Ray writes that he will be "... visiting cj de mooi for next 2 days ...."

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:38 pm

CJ will not be the first or last to have a huff on twitter and cause problems latter
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:01 pm

I'm quite happy with the results of my tweets. RDK hung himself out to dry by replying!

By the way, I wonder who complained about my open letter and caused Stewart to respond in the incorrect way he did. Any suggestions?

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:18 pm

Not helpful for those who don't follow twitter ...

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Alex McFarlane » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:49 pm

He retweeted my request for an apology followed by the statement that he stood by everything said or written. I have reason to believe he regretted that hence his complaint to Mr Farthing about me.
I hope that shortly he will regret it even more.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:11 pm

Jon D'Souza-Eva wrote: {Photograph of Steve Giddins removed from this thread for reasons of copyright}
You do seem to have upset him.

http://twitter.com/#!/stevegchess


Private Eye gets away with it.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Carl Hibbard » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:28 pm

What????

I have missed that one - the problem is the photo published of Steve himself is it?
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:33 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote:What????

I have missed that one - the problem is the photo published of Steve himself is it?
Below is a link - but it's the same photo and appears on each and every one of his twitter comments.

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1515 ... _small.jpg

Alistair Campbell
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Alistair Campbell » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:13 pm

Simon Spivack wrote:I shall risk Carl's wrath by tackling one digression.
IM Jack Rudd wrote:You mentioned the Night of the Long Knives. How is that not a Nazi reference?
It is not a direct reference when Harold Macmillan's bloodletting is understood, which for someone of Ernie's generation is a plausible interpretation.
Indeed. I had certainly imagined that this was a reference to Macmillan's sudden cabinet reshuffle of 13 July 1962 (of which I remember very little). The quote "greater love hath no man than this, that he should lay down his friends for his life" immediately sprang to mind.

This current unhappy affair is also reminiscent of the Westland crisis of 1986, when poor handling of the situation led to two ministerial resignations, which was careless. I fear that the ECF may also suffer two resignations which would be at least one more than necessary (I see Alex as the Heseltine figure here... :twisted: Despite that :shock: , he has my full support, not that that is worth much).

Is there someone who commands sufficient respect in the chess playing (or other??) community who could act as a mediator (offline) between the various parties and who could negotiate an early and mutually satisfactory solution? That would seem to be a preferable way of conducting things.

David Robertson
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by David Robertson » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:08 pm

Alistair Campbell wrote:Is there someone who commands sufficient respect in the chess playing (or other??) community who could act as a mediator (offline) between the various parties and who could negotiate an early and mutually satisfactory solution?
This would normally be a person of some maturity, experience, professional standing, and gravitas. It would normally be the Chairman of the Board. Or President :(

Craig Pritchett
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Re: Appeal for Board Support

Post by Craig Pritchett » Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:22 am

Hasn't the ECF got a formal Ethics Code in place, including defined standards and procedures to deal with complaints operated by respected parties acting independently from the board? If not, perhaps such a step might be considered for the future, as it might have offered advantages all round to help defuse this still very distressing set of affairs had there been a Code plus procedures in place. Chess Scotland recently bit the bullet on this on strong advice that it complied with best practice and that the federation might be vulnerable without one. According to an earlier post on this thread the Times International Standards Committee has also apparently been approached quite apart from the PCC on this case.

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