AGM : 15 October 2011

[Lara Barnes]

Sitting on the fence does not work in the face of the obvious.

.

Ernie, thanks again. You might like this quote:

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor" - Desmond Tutu

[Carl Hibbard]

Marketing Director: Tim Woolgar 95. Not this candidate 89, Abstentions 6.

Hard to believe

Does this mean I can ask the Director in question to stop sending me spam that I never asked for then?

[Paul Cooksey]

Marketing Director: Tim Woolgar 95. Not this candidate 89, Abstentions 6.

Hard to believe

Does this mean I can ask the Director in question to stop sending me spam that I never asked for then?

I love an irony, so I wonder if the S&B blog contributed to Mr Woolgar's election?

The honourable delegate for Manchester asked S&Bs question about recognition by Sport England. The Marketing Director responded that he had preliminary discussions with Sport England and was informed that it was necessary to have two years certified accounts. Chess Boxing did not have this, but he felt the effort was justified, and will complete the requirement this year.

My impression was that the answer gave him some credibility, and he was not pushed further. A good answer to S&Bs question may have helped him over the line in a close vote

(I checked, this requirement is indeed in Sport Englands Recognition Policy)

[David Robertson]

Fair enough, Paul, if this is how you saw and judged it.

But it hardly flatters Council that one glib answer was enough to override, not merely the views of the S&B blog, but the blatant insult to the gravitas of our distinguished and ancient game. Have Council members no pride, no sense of history, no belief in the merits of chess over chessboxing? In my opinion, any association with chessboxing creates grounds for a lifetime ban on further association with chess

[Paul Cooksey]

Fair enough, Paul, if this is how you saw and judged it.

I saw a lot of nodding, the rest is speculation. I don't want to pretend I'm Mike Navarro.

Have Council members no pride, no sense of history, no belief in the merits of chess over chessboxing? In my opinion, any association with chessboxing creates grounds for a lifetime ban on further association with chess

The ECF had two vacancies, and two candidates that impressed me. Unfortunately they both applied for the same vacancy.

[Roger de Coverly]

There are several loose ends that the Finance Director's work commitments have not allowed him to investigate properly yet.

Agreed, but isn't it one of the points of having a paid Office, that these things are done properly? I'm reminded that the Office are allowed no involvement in the grading process other than having their computers borrowed by people who know what they're doing.

[John Upham]

having their computers borrowed by people who know what they're doing.

I'd be surprised if either Tina's, Christine's or Andrew's desktop PCs play any part in in the grading process.

What roles are these desktop PCs meant to have in your mind?

Who are these people who know what they are doing and who is they?

[Paul Cooksey]

There are several loose ends that the Finance Director's work commitments have not allowed him to investigate properly yet.

Agreed, but isn't it one of the points of having a paid Office, that these things are done properly?.

I suppose we should wait until the discrepancies are investigated before asking how they occurred. But I have to admit this was my first thought too.

[Roger de Coverly]

What roles are these desktop PCs meant to have in your mind?

Who are these people who know what they are doing and who is they?

It's simple enough. Richard Hadrell, who in my estimation has a very clear idea how to run grading, or at least the data verification part of grading, borrows the ECF's computers to send out the the annual statements of games played and grading calculations. He does this because if he were to run it on his home computer, he would be suspected to be a spammer.

The ECF Office haven't been trusted with the unsupervised processing of grading data for over ten years.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

The honourable delegate for Manchester asked S&Bs question about recognition by Sport England. The Marketing Director responded that he had preliminary discussions with Sport England and was informed that it was necessary to have two years certified accounts. Chess Boxing did not have this, but he felt the effort was justified, and will complete the requirement this year.

My impression was that the answer gave him some credibility, and he was not pushed further. A good answer to S&Bs question may have helped him over the line in a close vote

(I checked, this requirement is indeed in Sport Englands Recognition Policy)

I had this impression as well (I was fortunate enough to be able to attend the AGM as the representative of the EDCA [English Deaf Chess Association], but was also noting some personal observations of my own). The answer certainly seemed credible at the time. There was also (brief) discussion after Tim Woolgar had left the room preceding the vote, when some took the opportunity to speak more forcefully than they might have done had the candidate been present. This was the only part of the meeting where I was mandated to use my discretion for the one vote I held, and unlike the other votes it did turn out to be close.

I did take notes during the meeting, but don't really want to say more until I've first reported back to those I was representing, and until the public minutes are published (I assume they are published). Though if the public minutes may be a long time arriving, I may post something sooner (on various personal observations).

Incidentally, who was there? I recognised some faces (managed to note everyone sat up front on the somewhat crowded table), and was able to guess who some were in the audience by what they were saying based on what they've said here! But many I'd obviously never seen before (arriving a few minutes late didn't help there). Locations in the room would help - I think I remember where most of the more vocal people were sitting.

[Paul Buswell]

does this mean we have a Membership model? Or was a sufficient % not reached?

What they've done is to change the Game Fee rates and extend member exemptions from Game Fee to leagues. This could be done with a 50% vote. The only material constitutional change was that new players, as individuals, no longer have to sign the £ 1 Guarantor form. No award of voting rights to individuals at all, in fact some organisations are likely to get votes for no direct payment to the ECF whatsoever.

They have presumably abolished Family and multiple year memberships in passing.

I apologise for being lazy... I haven't read all (well, any) of the actual proposals because I didn't expect them to be passed, and sufficient unto the day, etc.

My club, as an ECF Corporate Vice-President, has exemption from game fee on its internal results. Playing in those internal competitions, both standard play and rapid, we have a small number of players whose chess abilities are... shall I say, extremely modest, compared with their clubmates. They only participate internally, they don't play League or Congress chess. What are the cost implications for us as a club or for them as individuals for their internal results to be graded?

PB

[Paul Cooksey]

I apologise for being lazy... I haven't read all (well, any) of the actual proposals because I didn't expect them to be passed, and sufficient unto the day, etc.

No problem. You may be unaware that I am heading the ECFs effort to support the Kirsan's Extraterrestrial Research Initiative. You should therefore send £1000 per member immediately, if you PM me I'll pass on the details of the Nigerian IM who is handing the banking

My club, as an ECF Corporate Vice-President, has exemption from game fee on its internal results. Playing in those internal competitions, both standard play and rapid, we have a small number of players whose chess abilities are... shall I say, extremely modest, compared with their clubmates. They only participate internally, they don't play League or Congress chess. What are the cost implications for us as a club or for them as individuals for their internal results to be graded?

As things stand, it is up to the April ECF Finance Council to set the charges, as they have in the past with game fee and membership. But including the indicative numbers suggested:
1. There will be a complete exemption for players with a very low number of games in a year, up to 3 has been suggested
2. £12 is proposed for the basic Bronze membership. Some clubs seem to be intending to collect from their members with the club subs. The ECF may offer a £1 rebate for early payment (October)
3. A game fee applies to League and Club results submitted for non-members. The numbers suggested is £2, reduced to £1 if 85% of players in the competition are ECF members.

So you will likely have to encourage membership, or charge a fee for the internal tournament to cover game fee. The ECF is explicitly hoping you will do the former.

[John Philpott]

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

.......until the public minutes are published (I assume they are published).

The Procedural Bye Laws requires the minutes to be considered by the Board withn 10 weeks of the meeting and published on the ECF website within 13 weeks. I would hope that in practice considerably shorter timescales could be achieved. What does the minutes taker think, Alex?

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

Incidentally, who was there? I recognised some faces (managed to note everyone sat up front on the somewhat crowded table), and was able to guess who some were in the audience by what they were saying based on what they've said here!

In case you had not guessed, I was the individual wearing the West Ham shirt. My hopes that somebody might object to this as being unsuitable for an AGM, so that I would have been forced to withdraw from the meeting and go to the West Ham match instead, proved to be unfounded. David Anderton was sitting on my right, and Richard Haddrell in the alcove to my left.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

.......until the public minutes are published (I assume they are published).

The Procedural Bye Laws requires the minutes to be considered by the Board withn 10 weeks of the meeting and published on the ECF website within 13 weeks. I would hope that in practice considerably shorter timescales could be achieved. What does the minutes taker think, Alex?

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

Incidentally, who was there? I recognised some faces (managed to note everyone sat up front on the somewhat crowded table), and was able to guess who some were in the audience by what they were saying based on what they've said here!

In case you had not guessed, I was the individual wearing the West Ham shirt. My hopes that somebody might object to this as being unsuitable for an AGM, so that I would have been forced to withdraw from the meeting and go to the West Ham match instead, proved to be unfounded. David Anderton was sitting on my right, and Richard Haddrell in the alcove to my left.

Thanks (on both points). I had indeed identified you by the West Ham shirt (and by Mike Gunn referring to you as John). Was it Richard streaming the AGM live through your EC Forum account? Or was that another computer? I did notice mobile phones being used by some, but I think that was more playing computer games during the BCF meeting... (to be fair, many there were not voters for that meeting, but just waiting for the ECF meeting to resume). I was sitting on the left-hand side of the front row on the right half of the room. Were there any other board members (ECF and BCF) present apart from those sitting up front?

[John Philpott]

Christopher Kreuzer wrote

Was it Richard streaming the AGM live through your EC Forum account? Or was that another computer?

I had my own computer there and was making my own posts. Multi-tasking is a very routine part of my normal day.

Christopher Kreuzer wrote

Were there any other board members (ECF and BCF) present apart from those sitting up front?

. The BCF Board is the same as the ECF Board, and those present (only Stewart Reuben and Peter Purland were missing) were all sitting at the top table.

I will be offline for the next few hours as my Sunday League football team (Ainslie Wood FC - played six won six so far this season) have a home match against Cricklewood United.