2012 National Stages
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
2012 National Stages
The draw, complete with Counties, has been published at: http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=36
-
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Re: 2012 National Stages
I see there are defaults already. Why do counties accept a national stage nomination only to default?
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: 2012 National Stages
There has in fact been another default in addition to the one shown there.Sean Hewitt wrote:I see there are defaults already. Why do counties accept a national stage nomination only to default?
Kent U140 have defaulted against Yorkshire U140. This is the second Kent team to default a match thus far.
-
- Posts: 5249
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
- Location: Croydon
Re: 2012 National Stages
I think there's only one default so far, although I accept that that's one too many. However, if a team has to default, it's surely better that it does so sooner rather than later.Sean Hewitt wrote:I see there are defaults already. Why do counties accept a national stage nomination only to default?
I think the problem is that, during the Union Qualifying Stages, team captains understandably concentrate on those stages. The interval between knowing they've qualified and having to accept or decline nomination is quite short. What tends to happen is that it's only when they start trying to raise a team for the Preliminary Round or the Quarter Final that they find that they've got problems.
It would help, I think, if team captains circulated their players with the dates of the National Stages as soon as they are announced in October. We've discussed elsewhere on the Forum the desirability of the dates also being published in the ECF Calendar, thus assisting congress organisers to avoid clashes.
Edit: The above was written before I saw Alex Holowczak's post. I'm appalled that there's been a second default by Kent.
-
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Re: 2012 National Stages
Thanks for your response David.
I wonder how we can improve matters because it may well be that other teams would have taken the nomination accepted by the defaulting county. As it is, 16 players who wanted a game are left without one and the defaulting county faces a £50 fine.
I'm sure most counties understand the level of undertaking in accepting a nomination but do all?
I wonder how we can improve matters because it may well be that other teams would have taken the nomination accepted by the defaulting county. As it is, 16 players who wanted a game are left without one and the defaulting county faces a £50 fine.
I'm sure most counties understand the level of undertaking in accepting a nomination but do all?
-
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:08 pm
Re: 2012 National Stages
Hi David and Alex,David Sedgwick wrote:I think there's only one default so far, although I accept that that's one too many. However, if a team has to default, it's surely better that it does so sooner rather than later.Sean Hewitt wrote:I see there are defaults already. Why do counties accept a national stage nomination only to default?
I think the problem is that, during the Union Qualifying Stages, team captains understandably concentrate on those stages. The interval between knowing they've qualified and having to accept or decline nomination is quite short. What tends to happen is that it's only when they start trying to raise a team for the Preliminary Round or the Quarter Final that they find that they've got problems.
It would help, I think, if team captains circulated their players with the dates of the National Stages as soon as they are announced in October. We've discussed elsewhere on the Forum the desirability of the dates also being published in the ECF Calendar, thus assisting congress organisers to avoid clashes.
Edit: The above was written before I saw Alex Holowczak's post. I'm appalled that there's been a second default by Kent.
There are a number of reasons why I think this has happened and it is not the fault of the teams. There are the above reasons given by David, but in addition, there are other factors.
Kent does field a number of juniors who have exams at this time of year and they would not have known the dates of these rounds until just recently. This means then that the team becomes depleted quite quickly if they need to study. In addition, it is summer/spring and hence far more likely that the younger ones have other activities booked compared to winter.
It certainly would help if the dates were known earlier and circulated to all the players, as then the team captains could ensure that they have a full team for the relevant days.
The Kent team captains have been trying very hard to raise a team as I have seen the e-mails. It is not something that they have done lightly to default.
Kind regards,
Krishna
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: 2012 National Stages
The dates of the rounds were published as late as January on the ECF's Counties Championship page, but they could quite easily have been worked out from the rules of the competition last September. The dates of these rounds are fixed, and they always fall between April-July. So the problem of juniors not being available - one I sympathise with - is not a new problem that has suddenly appeared in 2012. They would have known about this based on experience in previous years.Krishna Shiatis wrote:Kent does field a number of juniors who have exams at this time of year and they would not have known the dates of these rounds until just recently. This means then that the team becomes depleted quite quickly if they need to study. In addition, it is summer/spring and hence far more likely that the younger ones have other activities booked compared to winter.
It certainly would help if the dates were known earlier and circulated to all the players, as then the team captains could ensure that they have a full team for the relevant days.
Perhaps Union matches shouldn't be scheduled so close to the 31st March deadline? If the SCCU (for argument's sake) scheduled their Union matches to end at the end of February, there would then be 4 weeks in which to work all this out. I understand that some Unions were still playing qualifiers on the last weekend before the deadline.David Sedgwick wrote:I think the problem is that, during the Union Qualifying Stages, team captains understandably concentrate on those stages. The interval between knowing they've qualified and having to accept or decline nomination is quite short. What tends to happen is that it's only when they start trying to raise a team for the Preliminary Round or the Quarter Final that they find that they've got problems.
-
- Posts: 5249
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
- Location: Croydon
Re: 2012 National Stages
All I can usefully say at the moment is that I've raised similar points privately and asked for the matter to be discussed at the SCCU Annual Council Meeting on Saturday 14th July.Sean Hewitt wrote:Thanks for your response David.
I wonder how we can improve matters because it may well be that other teams would have taken the nomination accepted by the defaulting county. As it is, 16 players who wanted a game are left without one and the defaulting county faces a £50 fine.
I'm sure most counties understand the level of undertaking in accepting a nomination but do all?
Your last sentence is not quite correct. The Director has the right to vary the dates until 31st October.Alex Holowczak wrote:The dates of the rounds were published as late as January on the ECF's Counties Championship page, but they could quite easily have been worked out from the rules of the competition last September. The dates of these rounds are fixed, and they always fall between April-July.
This season the dates were confirmed by the then Controller on 11th October and were published on the SCCU website. I thought they were also published on the ECF website at that time, but I could be mistaken. Obviously they should have been so published.
There aren't enough Saturdays in the season for us to do that. We are the victims of four successes: our own, and those of the 4NCL, e2e4 Chess and the London Chess Classic. If you look at our fixture list at http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/fixt.htm, you'll see that we're either playing or avoiding a clash on every available Saturday.Alex Holowczak wrote:Perhaps Union matches shouldn't be scheduled so close to the 31st March deadline? If the SCCU (for argument's sake) scheduled their Union matches to end at the end of February, there would then be 4 weeks in which to work all this out. I understand that some Unions were still playing qualifiers on the last weekend before the deadline.
That is why the SCCU strongly opposed the suggestion a couple of years ago that the deadline for nominations should become earlier than 31st March.
The only possibility would be to start in September, but experience has shown that captains have difficulty in raising teams then, as people are still on holiday at the time the captains need to contact them. When the ECF Counties Rapidplay Championship was held in late September in 2010 and 2011, several counties reported that this was a problem.
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: 2012 National Stages
It is interesting that the SCCU avoids the congresses in Brighton and Blackpool. The MCCU only avoids the 4NCL, and possibly the Warwickshire Championship. Here is the equivalent grid: http://www.mccu.org.uk/cmatches/fixtures.htmDavid Sedgwick wrote:There aren't enough Saturdays in the season for us to do that. We are the victims of four successes: our own, and those of the 4NCL, e2e4 Chess and the London Chess Classic. If you look at our fixture list at http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/fixt.htm, you'll see that we're either playing or avoiding a clash on every available Saturday.Alex Holowczak wrote:Perhaps Union matches shouldn't be scheduled so close to the 31st March deadline? If the SCCU (for argument's sake) scheduled their Union matches to end at the end of February, there would then be 4 weeks in which to work all this out. I understand that some Unions were still playing qualifiers on the last weekend before the deadline.
That is why the SCCU strongly opposed the suggestion a couple of years ago that the deadline for nominations should become earlier than 31st March.
The only possibility would be to start in September, but experience has shown that captains have difficulty in raising teams then, as people are still on holiday at the time the captains need to contact them. When the ECF Counties Rapidplay Championship was held in late September in 2010 and 2011, several counties reported that this was a problem.
Even there though, games were being played right up until the penultimate weekend.
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: 2012 National Stages
OK, fair enough; a slight exaggeration on my part.David Sedgwick wrote:Your last sentence is not quite correct. The Director has the right to vary the dates until 31st October.Alex Holowczak wrote:The dates of the rounds were published as late as January on the ECF's Counties Championship page, but they could quite easily have been worked out from the rules of the competition last September. The dates of these rounds are fixed, and they always fall between April-July.
I wasn't in post then, and I wasn't paying attention to such things. I've no idea if they appeared on the ECF website, to be honest.David Sedgwick wrote:This season the dates were confirmed by the then Controller on 11th October and were published on the SCCU website. I thought they were also published on the ECF website at that time, but I could be mistaken. Obviously they should have been so published.
-
- Posts: 5837
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: 2012 National Stages
"It is interesting that the SCCU avoids the congresses in Brighton and Blackpool."
Brighton is in SCCU.
Brighton is in SCCU.
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: 2012 National Stages
I'm aware of that, but there are lots of other congresses within the SCCU that aren't avoided. For example, Imperial College, e2e4 Gatwick, and more Rapidplays than you can shake a stick at. So why so keen to avoid Brighton and Blackpool? If Blackpool, why not Scarborough?Kevin Thurlow wrote:"It is interesting that the SCCU avoids the congresses in Brighton and Blackpool."
Brighton is in SCCU.
By contrast, the MCCU avoids none of these, but the matches get played. It would be impossible to do otherwise in places like Greater Manchester, which has that many local congresses that they're impossible to avoid.
-
- Posts: 5249
- Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
- Location: Croydon
Re: 2012 National Stages
We avoid Blackpool (if we can - it's not always possible) because we were specifically requested by some counties to do so. To the best of my knowledge no such request has been made regarding Scarborough - and we too can't avoid everything.Alex Holowczak wrote:I'm aware of that, but there are lots of other congresses within the SCCU that aren't avoided. For example, Imperial College, e2e4 Gatwick, and more Rapidplays than you can shake a stick at. So why so keen to avoid Brighton and Blackpool? If Blackpool, why not Scarborough?Kevin Thurlow wrote:"It is interesting that the SCCU avoids the congresses in Brighton and Blackpool."
Brighton is in SCCU.
By contrast, the MCCU avoids none of these, but the matches get played. It would be impossible to do otherwise in places like Greater Manchester, which has that many local congresses that they're impossible to avoid.
e2e4 Gatwick was avoided, except at U120 level (and one rearranged match). However, a number of matches clashed with the recent e2e4 High Wycombe event, which had not been announced when the fixture list was drawn up. The matches got played, but there were an unusually high number of defaults in individual games (mostly notified in advance, fortunately).
I don't attach any blame to anyone for this, but I think it demonstrates that the approach we adopt in the SCCU is broadly correct for us.
-
- Posts: 2720
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:16 pm
- Location: NW4 4UY
Re: 2012 National Stages
County matches frequently clash with Golders Green dates. This is one reason why I can't play county chess regularly!
Adam Raoof IA, IO
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!
Chess England Events - https://chessengland.com/
The Chess Circuit - https://chesscircuit.substack.com/
Don’t stop playing chess!
-
- Posts: 10382
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: 2012 National Stages
Actually, G Man avoids Blackpool as well as 4NCL, and at Open level at least, Scarborough, British Rapidplay and Preston - we only play Saturdays, but would have to avoid Sunday Rapidplays at Bolton, Bury, Stockport and Manchester tooAlex Holowczak wrote: By contrast, the MCCU avoids none of these, but the matches get played. It would be impossible to do otherwise in places like Greater Manchester, which has that many local congresses that they're impossible to avoid.
Any postings on here represent my personal views